littlewhitey's Servers Forum (SA-MP/VC-MP/MTA/Zomboid)
Recycle Bin => Suggestions (2008-2011) => SA-MP Archive (2015) => SA-MP Archive => Recycle Bin => Accepted Suggestions => Topic started by: Gryphus_One on October 09, 2010, 04:44:12 PM
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As we all know, one of the problems of the server is that some players are always chasing newbies to increase their stats, but removing stats doesn't seem to be the solution.
Someone told me that the stats are there to give you an estimation of how good or bad a player is and your chances of winning against him. However, the problem I see with the current stats system is not only that it rewards for killing newbies, but also that it doesn't really reflect the skills of the player, because for example a pro that fights only other pros will have a lower ratio than an average player that kills only newbies.
I have an idea by which the stats of kills, deaths and kill ratio would be changed for the level of the player, and you would increase it by killing players of your same level or higher, whereas you would decrease it if you kill players of lower levels than you, and there may be also some rewards for the players with the highest levels.
But I have to say that the scripting of this system might be complex, so firstly I want to know the opinion of the admins: if they are interested I can give the details of how this system would work, but if they are gonna keep the current system then there's no need for me to write it all.
Admins, what do you think?
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Fuck stats. There was a time I cared for it but now I know they mean jack shit. Don't make the system more complicated then necessary, people will keep laming as long as they can achieve nice looking numbers. It's easy to kill skilled players with hardly any effort. You just keep a distance, watch them fight others, and when they're almost dead you take your chance. And also people will abuse driveby more often, shoot you down to 10 hp and then get out to blast you off for some silly stats. There are shitloads of ways to achieve 'good' stats, and people will use them by any means.
And there are also the runners, some people just can't be killed because they always run and avoid hard fights, this takes the fun away from the game because people can't take a death, imagine your stats going down -0.1 OMG.
So my opinion, remove kill ratio completely, take a fucking chance and fight anyone just for the lolz. I'm out again going back to my dream because I'm sure this will never happen, people rather wanna be happy with their stats instead of having cool fights even if that means they die a lot.
Btw I know you have good intentions with this suggestion but be real, this is never gonna work and it's not gonna help the server getting back players.
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I agree with you masterbeef, playing for stats makes you not do some things that are fun but that can ruin your stats, so it reduces the fun of the game. And indeed I was thinking of creating a topic telling people not to play for money nor for stats but just for the fun.
I also suggested to remove stats some time ago but it was rejected, so if there "must" be a stats system, at least be it one that doesn't reward for lame playing as much as the current system.
Or a possibility may be implementing this system only for duels...
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That's why they call people who care about their stats 'statswhores', they do anything for their stats, it's not for the fun. I'm very sure if stats got removed, people still join this server, probably even more players stay because they have more chances to survive. Where is the time that everyone attacked everyone? That's way more cool then gangs who attack newbies, gangs don't even fight eachother anymore, the whole purpose of being in a gang has become useless.
Maybe a nice experiment for you (or you might have tried it before I think you have). Join as a random unregistered player, and head to the more crowded places like north ammu or police department, what do you notice? Yes, you get attacked by regulars who are waiting for guys like you to come.
That´s exactly what's wrong and why the playercount is this low and why other servers have high playercount, because they don´t lame as much as in LW´s. It´s not all that negative though cause I´ve seen some really cool guys who were trying to help me (while I pretended to be a newbie), but these people are unfortunately very rare.
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tl:dr
I agree, but instead of having kills, we should have points. You get points when you kill people at your level or 1-2 lower than you. Keep the kill stats, but add the point system based to what Gryp said. For those points you can buy somekind of stuff, for example the Special Item Shop stuff.
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Well, I have suggested this in another server and the server owned has asked me for the details so, since I have already written them all, I post them here too (i.e, I'm not writting this all from scratch, but it's just a copy and paste). Here it goes:
This system is based on the supposition that if you fight other players of your same level, you will have a kill ratio of around 1 (not exactly, but more or less). Therefore, to calculate your level, the system takes into account two things: your kill ratio, and the average level of your victims compared to your own level. These two values would be hidden, they would exist only for the internal calculations, and wouldn't be visible to players.
If your kill ratio is about 1 and the average level of your victims is more or less the same as your own level, then your level is stable. If one of the two values (or both) gets high, then you are promoted to the next level. However, if the average level of your victims is well below your own level, then your level decreases, no matter how high your kill ratio is. This would mean that if you are a progamer with a high level, but you kill newbies over and over again, despite of your kill ratio being very high, your level will decrease anyway.
Each time your level goes up or down, these two values would be reseted, for example they would be set to one kill and one death (i.e. new kill ratio = 1), to prevent the old data from interfering with the new one.
This way, everyone would start from level 0, and then the skilled players would start going up to level 1, then level 2 etc. and the system would encourage players to fight others of their same level, so newbies would fight newbies and pros would fight pros.
There would be no limit in the number of levels, so if there were a super skilled progamer he might get level 100, 200 or whatever with no limit in the script.
There should be a command to show on the radar only the blips of the players that are of your same level and make them have a specific colour (something similar to the /gang radar command). This would help you to tell who you must kill and who you musn't.
However, as I said this system would be complex to script, because here come the two complications that have come to my mind (and who knows, maybe there are more):
1-Imagine that a skilled player starts with a new nick (or a player that is new here but has experience from other servers): he would have level 0, but he might start killing players of high levels. In this case, a high level player that is attacked by one of "low" level has three main possibilities: kill that "low" level player, be killed by him (and in both cases he gets the risk of his own level going down), or run from him and avoid the fight (which looks lame and is not fun). A solution to this problem may be allowing the high level players to kill the low level ones until a certain percentage of their total kills, and they would start decreasing their level only if they exceed that percentage.
2-Imagine a player with level 8 (for example), but in that moment there's nobody in the server with such high level, so the rest have levels from 0 to 5. In this case, the level system should be smart enough to allow the player with level 8 to kill players of lower levels without decreasing his own level. If there are many players with level 5 (the second highest level in this example), then the player with level 8 can kill only those players, but if there are only 1 or 2 players of level 5 and many with level 4, then the player with level 8 can kill them too.
Of course this requires complex scripts to calculate how many players of each level there are in that moment and depending on that, whether or not allow the high level players to kill others of lower levels. The problem of this, apart from the scripting time that it would take, is the high risk of bugs.
I guess this is very complex to script, but I have another idea relating to stats and player skills that would also be really fun, I'm gonna open another thread about it.
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idk what say this game is for fun lol not for ration ....
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Accepted.
We actually have a discussion about a better death logging system in the development forums. Once that's implemented it will ultimately lead to a system like the one you've proposed here and a kill/death ratio reset.
The way the logging is proposed is to save the time of the kill. If this information is added then we can also optimize (and possibly better) the feature by making only kills/deaths made in the last {x} weeks noticed by this scoring system so that kills as a newbie don't follow you forever.
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What? so that means bye bye to my 22,448 kills?
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I guess even removing the stats wouldnt stop players killing newbs ...
because the most players would shot a noob whos afk at police dep if there are stats or not ...
I always hear things like "Disco is a statswhore he is only helikilling"
I am not helikilling to increase my stats i have just a lot of fun with helikilling ...
others have their fun with dbing or making money or whatever ...
If theres a player who care for his deaths removing the stats wouldnt change his way to play that game i guess..
YOu can try to make 100 suggestions to stop players to kill noobs (because you want a server with more players)
but there will always be a few guys who kill them ..
I think there is no way to stop that and you should focus on sth else to increase the player count..
I would like to keep my kills too btw ..
may you just remove the deaths count and the radio and thats it then ..
You only show kills and Duel wins or loses ..
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This is unbelievable: when finally they accept one suggestion of mine, then people come here after it's been accepted to try to stop it!
Benny, I agree in having a stat system, but we need one that reflects the true skills of the players more accurately (because kill ratio doesn't tell anything: you can be an average player that only kills newbies and have a higher ratio than a pro that only fights against other pros), and specially a system that rewards for fighting against regulars, not for killing newbies and making them leave the server.
Disco, you say that some people will keep the same attitude. Well, maybe some players will (the ones that don't care about stats), but if this system is well implemented, the players who DO care about stats will stop killing newbies and start fighting against other regulars.
And Disco and Nightmare, if you want to preserve your current stats, just do /s and take a screenshot, or do it from the stats webpage.
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This is gay,why u accepted it Hazzard if noone wants it?
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Accepted.
We actually have a discussion about a better death logging system in the development forums. Once that's implemented it will ultimately lead to a system like the one you've proposed here and a kill/death ratio reset.
The way the logging is proposed is to save the time of the kill. If this information is added then we can also optimize (and possibly better) the feature by making only kills/deaths made in the last {x} weeks noticed by this scoring system so that kills as a newbie don't follow you forever.
So what ur saying is, when ur in week 29 and u kill 10 people and get killed 40 times. You wont be able to see those k/d stats in week 40 anymore since its deleted ?
No stats will be deleted once this system is effect. There will just be several different ways to view them, the stats website (I'm hoping web developers will update it) would still be able to display stats from all time and whatever other way you wish to view them.
There could be new pages added to the site such as "Most Kills with Sawn-Off", "Most Kills with Driveby", "Most Kills in the Past Week", "Most Kills of All Time", "Players Who Gained the Most Skill Last Week (Based on Skill Points)" etc etc
Wouldn't it be cool to know who the best player in littlewhitey's is now? Not some has beens who have left the server. There would be new competition each week rather than players not attempting to get to the top because someone with seemingly impossible stats made over a million years with just driveby.
What? so that means bye bye to my 22,448 kills?
Yes, but if those numbers are important then I do have an idea to keep them although it would be annoying to work around with them. They would not be used for any of the skill points system because there would not be enough data to compute the skill bonuses/multipliers.
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Delete stats, delete players imo.
Indeed. The newbs who'd leave will still leave and the regulars who'd stay will also leave. Stats is something you can't just remove, IMO. :-X
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But who is talking about deleting stats? the matter is to CHANGE them!! for a more accurate and less lame system.
And seriously, if you all think that we must keep this terribly unfair and destructive stats system, then you are completely blind!!! We just CAN'T keep this thing which is leading so many players to kill newbies all the time and making them leave the server!! do I have to post screenshots?? ??? But do you really expect the server to ever have lots of players with this shit going on?? do you really think the current situation can be sustained??
But how can you be as selfish as to want to keep this thing for your own personal pleasure at the expense of the server's health??
And the most hypocritical thing, is that so many people agree in removing bank savings (I agree with that too), but now everyone is bitching because they can lose their lamely earned stats!!
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Delete stats, delete players imo.
Indeed. The newbs who'd leave will still leave and the regulars who'd stay will also leave. Stats is something you can't just remove, IMO. :-X
The way this is worded: do you think the stats system is going away completely? It's being improved! The only thing different to what you see now is what I was proposing as a side idea. Which was to have it show the last weeks stats, which could easily be changed to month/year/all time!
The week/month/year/all time could also just be added as an extra stat along with all time kills/death ratio. It seems you guys are getting pissy at the bigger idea for the minor details-- the tweaks which take like 2 seconds to change.
We have just talked about maybe using a dialog to show more stats in the server IRC channel.
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keep it to all time, and keep a shitload of people happy. Thats the ultimate goal. keepin peeps happy.
Lol, of course it's better to keep 20 regulars happy and lose 30 new players everyday...
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Cant you just do make it like, if someone does /s then it shows
Total Kills (overall):
Total Deaths (overall):
Total Kills (weekly):
Total Deaths (weekly):
But the overall kills and deaths should remain what we have now, and in those weekly thing you can add those skill thing you want.
You guys are saying you aint removing it. But, if you implement a new system which removes all your kills and deaths from the time you have been in lw, then its just like removing it.
PS: gryphus, stop trying to make server too much easy for newbies, this aint gamerx or some shit, lw has its own standards.
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keep the k/d stats and add the point system in addition.
removing stats is a horrible idea.
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This Suggestion sucks
Only guys like Benny or Hasard who are like 1 Hour on the Server per Week Or Some dbers who Never had Kills and who Ruin the Server more with dbing noobs
want that Suggestion and Yes i wanna keep my Kills, i don't Care what you do. With the Deaths or the other stuff .. But if you let everyone say Yes/no i am Sure it will be denied.
May Benny will Start now whining and complaining like a Princess but it is fact that you are Not one of the Players who plays Active ingame .
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If you guys are so obsessed about your stats then as Simon said the old stats can remain, although they wont be included in any detailed stats (but they can be displayed in your total kills, exactly as it is now!) because the new stats will take many things into account such as the vehicle used, the weapon used, whether it was a DB or not, whether it was done in a tank or a helicopter, and much more.
This way we can generate more interesting stats and do other things with them, like check who killed the most players on a certain day, or who killed the most players with sawns or with tecs or with a baseball bat or w/e. This way stats would be more than just a number, it would actually read more into them.
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Also maybe the reason people don't use the stats site is because it just shows total kills and not much else ? If the stats were more detailed people might be more interested.
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keep it to all time, and keep a shitload of people happy. Thats the ultimate goal. keepin peeps happy.
Lol, of course it's better to keep 20 regulars happy and lose 30 new players everyday...
...who would still leave with other stats and/or not being spawn-killed but killed otherwise... ::)
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Disco, now you say that you want to keep your stats, but when I suggested to remove them some time ago, you supported it: http://forum.littlewhiteys.co.uk/index.php/topic,12715.0.html (http://forum.littlewhiteys.co.uk/index.php/topic,12715.0.html)
In any case, all this avalanche of crying posts just proves me right when I say that everyone cares too much about stats in this server. And they still deny it when I talk about it in the game... ::)
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I just like to see that i got 14,5k kills
And i supported to it when you still can see the radio ...
Ofc you guys cant care about stats because you are completly unable to get some "stats"
And i dont care about getting killed but i would care if my 14k kills would just disappear
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Ofc you guys cant care about stats because you are completly unable to get some "stats"
I didn't expect this attitude from you Disco, but about what you say: of course that I'm unable to get some stats, which is totally logical with the current system that is totally unfair!!! The proof is that I play in another server and there I DO have good stats, because that server is much more fair!
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with the current system that is totally unfair!!! The proof is that I play in another server and there I DO have good stats, because that server is much more fair!
How can a system that counts everything be unfair? :-\
It's not unfair, not even in parts. You just see a few guys having fun at LVPD and an empty server. You're combining them, which isn't really logical since it's always been like this...
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with the current system that is totally unfair!!! The proof is that I play in another server and there I DO have good stats, because that server is much more fair!
How can a system that counts everything be unfair? :-\
Actually, it doesn't count driveby anymore because apparently lumping driveby into K/D ratio was unfair.
However, the older players still have their DB stats in their K/D ratio. Newer players will find it more difficult to reach the numbers that old players have in stats because they simply do not have the same advantages.
Those who say they never driveby and those stats are their raw deagle kills or something "macho", you can't prove it... there is no data to prove it, hence why a more accurate system is proposed.
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with the current system that is totally unfair!!! The proof is that I play in another server and there I DO have good stats, because that server is much more fair!
How can a system that counts everything be unfair? :-\
Actually, it doesn't count driveby anymore because apparently lumping driveby into K/D ratio was unfair.
However, the older players still have their DB stats in their K/D ratio. Newer players will find it more difficult to reach the numbers that old players have in stats because they simply do not have the same advantages.
Those who say they never driveby and those stats are their raw deagle kills or something "macho", you can't prove it... there is no data to prove it, hence why a more accurate system is proposed.
The system is not unfair ..
you are just unable to play normal and you can only db ...
if there would be db counted as kills i guess it would be so easy to do sprees over 200 ...
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Why isn't this thread already locked?? :o ???
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Why isn't this thread already locked?? :o ???
^Happens when you run out of stupid arguments for stupid ideas.
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Why isn't this thread already locked?? :o ???
^Happens when you run out of stupid arguments for stupid ideas.
Lol what?? ^Happens when a suggestion is accepted and after that the thread gets full of angry kids bashing each other, the first time I see something like this.
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gryphus the point is that noone rly reads youre suggestions cuz they are all so shit that no one think replying would make any sense because they will be denied anyways ..
And then hazard accepted it thats the point.
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gryphus the point is that noone rly reads youre suggestions cuz they are all so shit that no one think replying would make any sense because they will be denied anyways ..
And then hazard accepted it thats the point.
"And then Hazard accepted it" because he seems to be one of the few coherent people in this server, unlike you, that some time ago you were apparently thinking like me, and now you suddenly have turned 360º your opinions.
You can say any bullshit you want about me and my suggestions, but at least I have been always loyal to my principles, however you have lost all your credibility.
PS: Mr. Disco smart ass talks about shitty suggestions, LOL!!! http://forum.littlewhiteys.co.uk/index.php/topic,13361.0.html (http://forum.littlewhiteys.co.uk/index.php/topic,13361.0.html)
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We had already proposed a different system for stats (which would not result in anyone losing kills/deaths) and this idea could potentially work with the new system, however just because something is accepted doesn't mean it will certainly be implemented. The bottom line is your kills and deaths (although your probably not worried about losing deaths) are safe