littlewhitey's Servers Forum (SA-MP/VC-MP/MTA)
Other => Off-Topic => Technical Support => Topic started by: Faraday on April 27, 2011, 05:16:35 PM
-
Hey guys,
ok recently my old motherboard gave up due to an electrical short. Since I have an AM2 socket processor, the guys at the repair shop had to find a new mobo for me.
Old setup:
ASUS M3N78-VM Motherboard
2x1GB Kingston RAM 800MHz
1x2GB Kingston RAM 800MHz
Nvidia GeForce 9600 GT
AMD Phenom X4 Quad Core
My new setup:
MSI K9N6PGM2-V2 Motherboard
2x2GB Kingston RAM 800MHz
Nvidia GeForce GTX 550 Ti
AMD Phenom X4 Quad Core
Power supply: 550W Antec earthwatts.
So here's what happened. I bought the new GeForce 550 GTX, and put it in my old setup. This caused my mainboard to malfunction (also due to bad screws/bad case).
The technicians at the repair shop replace my old mobo with the MSI-one. They said they couldn't deliver any better boards which would support the AM2 socket. They also replaced my 4 sticks of ram for only 2, because my new mainboard wouldn't support more (only 2 slots). They also built my system into a new case, because my old case was a REALLY old one which had different dimensions of ATX/mATX boards.
Now, my system holds the new (better) GTX 550 Ti, it also cost more than the 9600GT. But the big problem is that I suffer MAJOR lag in every type of game.
Before I had no trouble playing GTA:IV, Battlefield: Bad Company 2, Crysis, L4D2, TF2, etc..
Now I can't even start up L4D2, TF2 lags horribly. And if TF2 already lags, I won't even start on BFBC2 & GTA:IV.
Does anyone know what causes this lagging? Is it mainly the motherboard? I also did the Windows Score thingy and it gives me:
Processor 7,1
RAM 5,5
GPU 7,3
HDD 5,9
Now the main purpose of buying the 550 GTX was to improve my system, not to make it horribly worse. I find it difficult to believe that it would be my GPU. The main thing I can think of, is the motherboard. But I don't see how that can have such an impact on playing games.
Any help or info appreciated!
-
:o
all original drivers installed?
-
Please only non-moronic replies.
-
Please only non-moronic replies.
oke!
all original drivers installed?
-
Well the gfx card is much better than the 9600gt so in theory should be less lag, esp if the games were not lagging before.
The CPU seems good, and ram remains the same so mobo would seem the problem.
I am wondering if you have damaged other things when you installed the new gfx card (ram/cpu).
As an idea go to nvidia's website and download the latest (or beta) drivers for your gf card (im guessing you have done this but still).
Also, check the temperature at which your card is running (mine originally ran up to 91oC, and would lag in some games at such high temperatures, so i had to get a better case and a new fan to cool it down!.
Other ideas are to ensure nothing running in background, up-to-date drivers or check settings either in the game (tf2 has a "multi-core" option, which is off by default) or by the "nvivida control panel".
After this i would suggest IRC and ask dugi/carol/anyone there about it. They know a lot more about this then me and are very good at finding problems :D
-
Check if the graphic card fan is working fine.
-
Fans are spinning as normal. I have no idea how to check the temperature.
Latest drivers installed. The guys at the repair shop put it in my new case and built it from the bottom up, so I'm guessing they didn't damage anything.
On my old setup I played every game on (almost) highest settings, I know about the multicore option in TF2.. I emailed the shop today and waiting for response. It sucks to have paid that much money to get an even worse pc now...
-
ya,didnt have time to explain..I just wanted to say about drivers,sometimes latest drivers are not OKE,they suk..I had that thing few times...changed many PCs..
So anyway,just wanted to say u can try with original drivers CDs u got with PC and cards,motherboard...!
Not tried to be moronic,just suggestion! My PC worked better with "outdated" drivers AKA original! ::)
-
Fans are spinning as normal. I have no idea how to check the temperature.
hmm mine came with the software, so i would guess software can tell you the temp.
Only other things i could think off are defrag the computer and see if that helps.
Check all drivers are up-to-date
Doubt chaning case would do damage - i changed mine and it works fine.
One point: On TF2 my game started to lag and cut out after the last update (a couple of weeks ago) i had to un-install and re-install the game to get it to run correctly. Might be an idea to try if you can, otherwise wait for the store.
Its annoying, i know to have a computer which should run great and does not. Happened to me, new gfx card, and my games lagged (even samp!) then after 3days it broke lol. So i took it back, got a new (and better one) in the sales and loved it.
Sorry cant be much more help D:
-
Can't you try putting your graphic card into someone else's pc? I mean just to rule out that there is no manufacturing defect in graphic card which seems to be the most suspicious thing.
-
http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html
tool to monitor temps
-
Ok update:
Got word back from the store. They said it would have to do with my new motherboard (being suckier than my previous one) but only in a small amount of influence. They also said a re-installation of Windows might help. So I reinstalled Windows and I'm now using Win7 64 bit. Same problem still stands. I've tried BFBC2, TF2, L4D2 so far. TF2 Lags like a motherfucker. Can you imagine that? I have a fucking Quad Core AMD Phenom, 4 gigs of RAM, and a motherfucking 1GB GeForce graphics card.
Imo that is in nowhere acceptable to be playing games like I'm on an 80's Atari.
I also checked the temperatures and everything is normal (imo), reaching to around 60° after playing an hour of GTA:IV. (the GPU that is, rest is more than ok).
I need some fresh eyes on this because it's frustrating and annoying. I have a buttload of awesome games which I was used to playing on highest settings and now some games are unplayable.
-
could it be a hardware conflict ?
-
I sure hope not. Because the guys at the store found a replacement for my old motherboard.
-
hmmm only other thing is either try gfx card in another computer which has same specs and see if it can run tf2 lag free. 60 is a fine temp - the card can run up to 95 (would not suggest this! - the cooler the better and the less lag and more life)
The gfx card you got should run tf2 easily (i looked it up - seems a good card, but on highest settings it might lag a bit) gta:iv is a hit and miss game imo - on my rig it runs good, but other who have the same/better set up it runs crap... so would concentrate on tf2 and other games atm.
one idea is if you can (i can do this and i have same os) - open task manager (alt+ctrl+del) and click on performance. Keep it open and run tf2. After it starts and you notice lag, quit the game and look at the performance manager. It will tell you if your cpu is maxing out or if ram is (it has some nice chart things, and would tell you if they are maxing out in the game). If either are then this would explain lag, and the cause - then we know the cause :D. If not then its something else D:
I say this as i thought of one thing: When i open tf2 (a couple of times) i noticed huge lag (i mean unplayable!). I did this and noticed one process (which wasn't of any use) was using all my cpu (i mean 90%!) i stopped this process (was linked to some old software i un-installed) and BAM lag free tf2. Every so often my comp will max out on explorer.exe (normally after defrag has run) and i have to end it and reload it. This could be a cause - one process maxing out your cpu/ram = lagggggggggg
After this it would only leave the mobo or gfx card. These might be slightly harder to test. Anyways, if you can do this, and let us know then it would eliminate two options :D
Hope this helps,
ACE (the man of many sheep)
-
Thanks ACE, yes my main concern is TF2 :)
I did what you said, and looked at the graphs & stuff (also alt-tabbed during TF2) and saw that the processor graph was peaking way up high (my estimate around 80% usage). I couldn't determine which process it was, that was maxing out my processor.
hl2.exe was the one using the most memory (obvious) after that I found like 20 apps called svchost.exe. All using about 4MB of ram. This is very odd, I don't want to terminate those processes because I don't know what will happen.
So my guess is that my processor is maxing out while I'm playing games. Which is weird because I never experienced that on my old motherboard.
My old one was an ASUS M3N78-VM (http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_AM2Plus/M3N78VM/) and the new one is an MSI K9N6PGM2-V2 (http://us.msi.com/index.php?func=proddesc&maincat_no=1&prod_no=1872)
Could you take a look and see if there's any major differences in CPU support or w/e that could make my CPU max out much quicker? Or is that a completely ridiculous way of thinking? I really am frustrated about all of this and want to find a solution which won't cost me another 200€.
-
svhost.exe (or its similar name) is a windows process - cant remember what it does but dont terminate it - its either a process of the os or of the internet lol
hmm looked at the mobo's (would suggest someone else might want to as well to ensure i am correct):
I can find two main differences:
Your old card had support for directx10 - new card only does directx9 (though im sure gfx card will support dirextx11 so this wouldnt/shouldnt make any diffrence)
Other thing is the bus speed (aka transfer speed on mobo) - its slower on your new mobo - old one was min 1600mt/s (max 5200MT/s - new one is 1000mt/s (so 600 million transfers a second slower at minimum). Might explain the problem.
Also, your old mobo had hypertransfer 3.0 which is (apparently) 2.6times faster than the new mobo.
A note of caution: I could not tell you if 1000mt/s is fast or slow, or if it should be able to play games. So your new mobo could be fast enough.
If you got this done at a shop and told them you were going to use the computer for games, then they should have made sure that the rig can play games half decently.
Another way to determine what is eating up your cpu/ram is to do this:
task manager, performance then click the little "resource monitor" button (lower middle of the performance charts), click and then on the resouce monitor click CPU tab. Order the processes by "threads" (mine currently has anti virus first then firefox, then svchost). This should tell you whats using ur cpu the most.
Then click ram - order by "commit (kb)" - again mines same order as before.
NEW INFO:
So i did a bit of research - check your bios and ensure your mobo is not using the "integrated" gfx which come with it (it should disable when it finds the newer card, but always worth a shot).
Lastly: (after a long post) If any of this is confusing i apologise. Just say and i can clear it up. I will try to look more into the prob tomoz and ask dugi. Another idea (as were not the greatest of experts here) is to post this (not the whole thread, but your problems) on a "computer forum" http://forums.techguy.org/ (http://forums.techguy.org/) . I would recommend that site - i have had problems before and they have helped me. Good knowledge and a "games/hardware" section. Its free (which is always nice).
-
I did an extra test with BFBC2 and running the monitoring thingy at the same time. Now my processor went up to 100%. There was also a service called "NT & Kernel" which used up more than 100 threads where as BFBC2 only used around 60..
Thx for your help so far, I'll surely check that forum out.
-
No srsly now... have u tried reinstalling all hardwares drivers and stuff? And installing originals back on,without updating?
-
I have tried it with original drivers from their accompagnied DVD's, with updated drivers, etc. I don't think it's a driver problem.
-
Pieter, do the BIOS thingy ACE told you. If the motherboard is using integrated GFX then we have an obvious reason why you suffer from enormous lag. I am like 55% sure that the issue you're dealing here is motherboard related. If you have a friend, that has AM2 mobo (or AM3 mobo that supports AM2+), you can test you're GFX, RAM and processor on his rig to make sure the issue is with motherboard. Motherboards are luckily not that expensive (mid class ones), you can easily replace your current momo for AM3 mono that also supports AM2+. Also, don't leave out the PSU. PSU can have an affect on performance if the parts you're using in your rig exceed your 500W of power usage and if PSU burns through, it can take many valuable PC components with it.
Not sure if any of this helped, but I thought I'd give my rookie 5 cents in here also. :P
-
I already checked the BIOS and it's set to use the PCI-E slot for graphics, so nothing there.
Well in the meantime I'm saving up for a new motherboard/processor/ram (AM3+DDR3), because I also think it's a mobo issue. The guys at the shop just took what they had in stock so it's not that of a great motherboard, it only supports AM2(+). Once I get enough money to buy the new stuffs I'll put this stuff with an old gfx card into another case and I'll put it aside or sell it to someone :p
I just feel a little ripped off by the guys in the shop, and I think there's nothing I can do about the lag without having to buy new components..
Also it's definately not my PSU. I did the Antec PSU Calculator thingy and it only needed around 400W, so I'm safe there.
I did some additional testing while playing and monitoring my MEmory usage, Processor usage, and the only problem I see is the processor maxing out. I don't know what that happens. It only happens on 1 of 4 processors so that's a little strange. I get 4 graphs from processor 0 to 3, and only processor 0 is at full capacity.
-
Posted my problem on the Tech Guy Forums, I'll keep it updated here.
-
It only happens on 1 of 4 processors so that's a little strange. I get 4 graphs from processor 0 to 3, and only processor 0 is at full capacity.
Interesting :o
Try opening task manager (when a game/process that lags) is running. Right click it (tf2 = hl2.exe) and click affinity, make sure all CPU's are checked (0,1,2,3). It could be that the games/processes are not set up right for quad core and are all using one cpu (its unlikely, but worth a shot).
Is you cpu am2 or amd2+ (i thought it was the former). If its the latter there are a few mobos, like your old one for around 30-40£ (i have no idea about conversion rates). The only thing is to do as you said - save up and get new parts.
BTW just curious now: you have tried your old gfx card in your new rig (instead of the 550gtx)? again i am presuming you have done this with no results.
Any ways, keep us updated with what tech guys say: i would like to know what the solution is :D
edit: I found your post :D lol - just thought i would mention that :D
-
Interesting :o
Try opening task manager (when a game/process that lags) is running. Right click it (tf2 = hl2.exe) and click affinity, make sure all CPU's are checked (0,1,2,3). It could be that the games/processes are not set up right for quad core and are all using one cpu (its unlikely, but worth a shot).
I'll take a look into this when I have the time.
Is you cpu am2 or amd2+ (i thought it was the former). If its the latter there are a few mobos, like your old one for around 30-40£ (i have no idea about conversion rates). The only thing is to do as you said - save up and get new parts.
I think it's AM2, no idea really since I've searched on AMD website but couldn't find the info.
BTW just curious now: you have tried your old gfx card in your new rig (instead of the 550gtx)? again i am presuming you have done this with no results.
Any ways, keep us updated with what tech guys say: i would like to know what the solution is :D
edit: I found your post :D lol - just thought i would mention that :D
I haven't tried my old gfx card to see if that could be the problem, I'll do this after the weekend. I'm at home right now, and my desktop is in my college home.
-
Hey man,
i had some probs on my rig with older games and some rare new ones, that somehow sound similar to urs.
Ill suggest to search ur bios for AMD's 'cool-n-quiet' option, some amd cpus have that thing, if u find it, put it out, it's known to cause major lags.
Also try binding ur game processes to specific cores, and test it with several setups. That also helped me.
-
Yes I'll try turning the Cool 'n Quiet option off.
On another note: As I noticed I didn't reinstall all my games in that meaning. Let me explain: I installed my steam (and all of my games) on a different hard drive. That was under a 32-bit Win7. Now I was thinking, most games I play are steam games, except for BFBC2 and Fable:The Lost Chapters. I can play the latter without any lag whatsoever. So I'm gonna try and delete everything, and then reinstall steam and reinstall all of my games. Or maybe I can keep the game files for like nonsteam games like GTA:IV (because that's over 40 gigs of DL in total).
I also got a message when I first tried to launch L4D2 with my new card, that the card wasn't in the database of support for L4D2. I'm gonna contact steam about this for sure.
-
I also got a message when I first tried to launch L4D2 with my new card, that the card wasn't in the database of support for L4D2. I'm gonna contact steam about this for sure.
new card so might not be yet, but should still run it. Yeah reinstall steam, and all games if possible (esp tf2 - mine was lagging and crashing and re-install was only way to fix it...sigh)
It a pain in the arse to re-dl games, but worth it when it works :D
-
Okay reinstalled steam and TF2 + GTAIV:EFLC + L4D2. Play L4D2 without any lag, TF2 still lags like hell. Tried playing with and without multicore redering. It's very strange.
-
Check BIOS! And reinstall Windows! Or try other windows! GL
-
have you tried a 32bit OS?
-
have you tried a 32bit OS?
Nub! he has over 3.5gb of ram so 32bit os would be stupid.
try like GPU-Z (http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/) and see if its using the gpu's processor and ram while playing tf2.
-
why is ruling out 64bit OS stupid?
-
why is ruling out 64bit OS stupid?
Didn't he have 32bit os originally and it lagged?
Good news about lfd2...strange about ft2. Have you tried lowering all the settings to minimum and see if it lags? If it does it could rule the gfx card out. If it still lags then it not the card but something else (we are starting to run out of things to blame D:)
BTW you read the reply on the tech guys forum?
-
Originally I had 32-bit. But it caused the lag issue and so I installed 64-bit.
I read the reply on Tech Guy Forums, but I don't think that guy knows something more.
This is what I get so far, it's not my PSU (tested at the shop), it's not the GPU (tested with my old GPU), it's not the OS, it's not Steam...
I'm gonna try turning off the cool 'n quiet option and see what it tells me. I've given up for lik 80% on the matter, and I'm on my way of saving up for some new gear.
-
Try to run ur progs on high settings (u could even give highest settings a chance).
Some systems have big problems (like mine) to make some games work properly on low settings, but run them fine on max settings.
-
Already tried in different resolutions, different quality settings, etc...
The thing that strikes me is that L4D2 works great, but TF2 doesn't, even though it works on the same engine. I'm starting to think that TF2 doesn't fully support my GPU (since it's a brand new type). When I launch L4D2 it gives me a pop-up saying that my GPU isn't in their database and it asks me to upload the details. TF2 doesn't do this but it gives horrible lag.
-
do u have an old card to test with?
-
This may or may not help but anyways:
On nvidia website it gives you "profiles" for games to download (to improve graphics performance) Its got L4D on there - i have not tried this but thought it might help you out with some games (tf2 aint on there)
http://uk.geforce.com/optimise/optimal-game-settings/gpu-GeForce-GTX-550-Ti (http://uk.geforce.com/optimise/optimal-game-settings/gpu-GeForce-GTX-550-Ti)
AN IDEA: though im sure this has been suggested.
If you kept your old 9600gt then uninstall all nvidia stuff, and reinstall that card and try TF2 - if it lags then its not the gfx card.
You can optimize settings for games in the "nvidia control panel" (right click your desktop, click it) Go in to "manage 3d settings, click on program settings tab, look for tf2 or click "add" and find the game. Then try to fiddle with those settings (i would say start on low/off then see if that helps).