littlewhitey's Servers Forum (SA-MP/VC-MP/MTA/Zomboid)
SA-MP Server - 54.38.156.202:7777 => General => Topic started by: EnzoMortelli on July 10, 2011, 12:46:16 AM
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The HC4L ban session last weekend made me google for casino bugs, and it made me read the servers rules again.
And it made me think...
Common Sense
First and foremost, common sense should be used at all times on littlewhitey's SA-MP Server. If you know, believe or even have a suspicion something you are doing is wrong and could get you punished then you should not be doing it - if in doubt, contact a member of the team for more information.
Obviously for me, its this point that fails so hard nowadays, not just only here, not just only in gaming, but everywhere in society common sense seems to lack away from the peoples mentalities.
Nowadays most people are not like: 'Hey, this could be disallowed. Let's not do it!', they are more like: 'Who cares if it's allowed? Let's see what they gonna do about it.'
The whole societies collective mentality nowadays works on that pattern. The new generation, raised by the media, still believing they'd be rockstars or millionairs one day, who never experienced a war, a big economic depression, got everything stuffed up their a*** and never learned how to lose.
Everything is available at every time. And we don't only rely on that, we demand it. We demand it for us, and the whole world goes down if something, whatever it may be, does not work how it always worked, isn't there how it used to be or isn't how we imagined it. The whole life should be a colourfull dream, and we got much to used to be bedded on roses. And the new generation would do everything, to keep this up.
In a world, where everything is always available, where there are no boarders in any direction, where are the limits for our mind, our actions, our values? Where are values? Is there even something left that could be called a value? What are values? Our generation doesn't even know anymore. There are absolutely no limits left for the abomination between humans. And this is a factor, that will lead to societal annihilation. In order to keep 'our little society' running, i believe we must fix those mental problems by any call.
Admins are doing a great job here, and it's really not on me for judging on the ways they handle things. Being an admin is sometimes hard work, more and more in this times. But as i may can make a suggestion, i think the server, foremost the gaming experience, would greatly benefit, if the admins actions could represent something like a 'light-darwinism'. I experienced, and that is only my opinion, and im sure it's no-one else's, that admins were a bit to soft on that specific first point of our rules: common sense.
I would like to see admins being more consequent, once in defining rules, and next in making sure that they are not violated.
No one benefits from a discussion wether its a ban reason to camp a player in a checkpoint, or to avoid being killed by running into a checkpoint.
And thats only one example.
To speak about the HC4L story: I will not judge the actions taken on Bolo, because i really can't say what i would have done as an admin if suddenly a player has 101 mil and that money should come from gambling. But the HC4L reaction would have needed a faster end. At first an admin's decision is final, so no point in discussing it for 15 minutes. And secondly there's a rule about flaming and spamming, so why on earth let them trash the chat for 15 minutes while noone would win something in that discussion? It would all have been in the rules (read them here:http://forum.littlewhiteys.co.uk/index.php/topic,912.0.html (http://forum.littlewhiteys.co.uk/index.php/topic,912.0.html)).
Anyways this came to my mind this week:
(https://littlewhiteys.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FqsO6D.jpg&hash=a7bfd01fac459a9faa5ff83c986d6c053fe70862)
I think this comic pretty much describes the gaming situation nowadays, and the people who allready saw this, all agreed with it.
Now i want you to post, regarding to what i wrote up there ^, how we can improve this comic on Littlewhitey's.
Read carefully: I will not accept any senseless or trolling replies, neither any flaming or disrespecting comments. If you reply:
- stay constructive
- be open minded and think about other opinions before you disagree with them
- try to comply with FCC standards ;)
I reserve myself the right to ask an admin to delete any reply that doesn't go with these simple rules.
Now give opinions and onions.
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I didnt understand the comic
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I didnt understand the comic
On the top there are the player types, every type has its own column. U have to read the comic for every type from top down, not from left to right. (except admin, he's from bottom up and right to left ;D)
Watch the fun-bar at the left corresponding to the events pictured.
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Enzo du versuchst viel zu sehr noch was an dem server zu verändern bzw. den admins, versuchs noch en bischen un du wirst merken das es alles keinen Sinn hat.
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pontless post...
Don't reply here if you have nothing to say.
Enzo du versuchst viel zu sehr noch was an dem server zu verändern bzw. den admins, versuchs noch en bischen un du wirst merken das es alles keinen Sinn hat.
Danke für die Warnung, aber so schnell gebe ich mich nicht geschlagen.
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what are you trying to say with your first post enzo? i dont get it at all.
what does the comic have to do with common sense?
what does the HC4L story have to do with common sense?
and for what reason did you create the comic? whats your intention with this topic?
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The new generation, raised by the media, still believing they'd be rockstars or millionairs one day, who never experienced a war, a big economic depression, got everything stuffed up their a*** and never learned how to lose.
Aren't we suffering a big economic depression right now?? ???
In a world, where everything is always available, where there are no boarders in any direction, where are the limits for our mind, our actions, our values? Where are values? Is there even something left that could be called a value? What are values? Our generation doesn't even know anymore. There are absolutely no limits left for the abomination between humans. And this is a factor, that will lead to societal annihilation. In order to keep 'our little society' running, i believe we must fix those mental problems by any call.
Well it's true that societies have many problems, but I don't agree with you about them becoming worse than before (at least not in all ways), but rather the opposite: I think some important advances are being made, for example in a certain Spanish town they used to make a party about letting a goat fall from the top of a church, and now that's not done anymore.
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Enzo i can only say i agree with you, and it's nice to see that someone else has this opinion
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what are you trying to say with your first post enzo? i dont get it at all.
That the gaming experience suffers from societal trends nowadays and im not willing to let this server fall into these trends, because i think it is bad for the part thats important in playing a game: the fun.
what does the comic have to do with common sense?
Nothing directly. It just popped to my mind as a representation for the modern gaming community and their pro and cons.
what does the HC4L story have to do with common sense?
Well, the common sense was one thing, as i said i wouldn't judge about actions taken against Bolo, but if the money really wasn't from gambling, which i don't say, because i don't know, then Bolo would have done good in following the first server rule, which is infact about common sense.
The HC4L thingy was about the second part: consequence.
and for what reason did you create the comic? whats your intention with this topic?
I created this topic for one reason: I want to take part in making this server a place to stay, even if its only a small part, foremost for me, and also for the other players. I somehow like to contribute to this place, because i spend much time here and it would be a crying shame if it goes down.
The new generation, raised by the media, still believing they'd be rockstars or millionairs one day, who never experienced a war, a big economic depression, got everything stuffed up their a*** and never learned how to lose.
Aren't we suffering a big economic depression right now?? ???
What we have right now is more an financial depression. It's not like you have to wait 8 months for bananas isn't it? Still everything a normal player needs is available.
In a world, where everything is always available, where there are no boarders in any direction, where are the limits for our mind, our actions, our values? Where are values? Is there even something left that could be called a value? What are values? Our generation doesn't even know anymore. There are absolutely no limits left for the abomination between humans. And this is a factor, that will lead to societal annihilation. In order to keep 'our little society' running, i believe we must fix those mental problems by any call.
Well it's true that societies have many problems, but I don't agree with you about them becoming worse than before (at least not in all ways), but rather the opposite: I think some important advances are being made, for example in a certain Spanish town they used to make a party about letting a goat fall from the top of a church, and now that's not done anymore.
Well speaking of advances, i know its going upwards again there. E.g. the so-called 'new european youth', which describes the phenomenon of older values comming back in trend in europe, first and foremost TRUST, which is infact very important (to me). I experienced that during my voluntary ecologic year, where i was on weeklong workshops with other people from whole germany, and the athmosphere of trust was unbeatable, i could even let my cellphone and my money lay around in our 16-ppl dormatories, with the door open, a thing i sure would even have never done in my old class from school.
But as the values come back in, mentality stays the same, because it doesnt change so fast, and ppl need some valves to let the shit blow off, and unfortunately, one of these is gaming. You see my concern?
Enzo i can only say i agree with you, and it's nice to see that someone else has this opinion
Thanks Quickplay.
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this is an economic depression.
i dont understand most of this topic
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enzo, good work with the comic thx for sharing
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this is an economic depression.
well its no comparison to 1910.
i dont understand most of this topic
Sorry my english is still not good enough for higher scientific discussions, but i guess you can make it if you think a little bit about it.
enzo, good work with the comic thx for sharing
Thx Superbad.
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I read through (comic is small on my computer so i did not read it). However, after the last two weeks i have had i agree. Many people in the current (and for a previous generation or so) have an odd "this is not allowed...but whos gonna do something about it".
Though i would add (and hopefully not so much on LW's) that there are a lot of people with this mentality who get away with a lot...(again im saying this IRL not about LW's or any associated arguments).
It is a shame...but eventually (and this is the only thing that keeps me going at times) is those people who break rules, etc eventually get their comeuppance or something happens. If i did not think this i think i would have gone insane and killed people...
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I read through (comic is small on my computer so i did not read it). However, after the last two weeks i have had i agree. Many people in the current (and for a previous generation or so) have an odd "this is not allowed...but whos gonna do something about it".
Though i would add (and hopefully not so much on LW's) that there are a lot of people with this mentality who get away with a lot...(again im saying this IRL not about LW's or any associated arguments).
It is a shame...but eventually (and this is the only thing that keeps me going at times) is those people who break rules, etc eventually get their comeuppance or something happens. If i did not think this i think i would have gone insane and killed people...
Most times IRL you just can't do something about it, because it's not your concern, the law prohibits it, or else. But in here, we have admins that work close to the players, which can be talked to. Normally we don't have to wait until fate punishes Rule Breakers. The thing is that from what i experienced these days that it is laid in the hands of fate what happens to rulebreakers, because there are no consistent rules for some exploits, or rule breakers are not punished with consistence. Also we (the players) can't do it, it's job of the admins. There's no fate in virtual worlds. If there is no consistence in that you might have to go out in the future and kill some LW's players :D
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If there is no consistence in that you might have to go out in the future and kill some LW's players :D
I could consider several other people who deserve it more....most of the staff at Churchill would be a start (yes im pissed at my insurence for being idiots) - now on topic:
I have not been in game much, due to work, and other stuff happening where apparently my decent in to a big black hole just continues and continues....
In game each admin is allowed a certain "flexibility" due to people interpreting things differently. Now, i for one try to punish each player in constancy with the rules and common courtesy. (I.e. warning new players, banning older players for certain actions). However, each admin may view the same instance differently and think different punishments are appropriate. Therefore, we have to have some flexibility. There is rigidity as well (haxors are banned instantly)....i forgot where this is going now D:
We try to ban people who deserve it (haxors, persistent rule breakers, etc) but a new player who breaks a rule - we will warn not ban. A player who has logged 30+ hours game time and breaks a rule = kick/ban (deepening on rule broken). We do give players what they deserve in game when it is needed. However, each person will interpret what a person deservers differently and a major problem now is the lack of respect for players and admins by certain players. Some who think saying "You bitch" is a flame and instant ban. Some who "flame bait" then deny they have done anything wrong.
When i come in to game i rarely see flaming (prob cus i get bored and ban people involved - always fun). I also rarely see people not using common sense (unless i ban them, then they are idiots).
Umm thats all i can think of as a reply. Let me know if it makes sense D:
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If there is no consistence in that you might have to go out in the future and kill some LW's players :D
I could consider several other people who deserve it more....most of the staff at Churchill would be a start (yes im pissed at my insurence for being idiots) - now on topic:
;D
I have not been in game much, due to work, and other stuff happening where apparently my decent in to a big black hole just continues and continues....
:-\ good luck
In game each admin is allowed a certain "flexibility" due to people interpreting things differently. Now, i for one try to punish each player in constancy with the rules and common courtesy. (I.e. warning new players, banning older players for certain actions). However, each admin may view the same instance differently and think different punishments are appropriate. Therefore, we have to have some flexibility. There is rigidity as well (haxors are banned instantly)....i forgot where this is going now D:
We try to ban people who deserve it (haxors, persistent rule breakers, etc) but a new player who breaks a rule - we will warn not ban. A player who has logged 30+ hours game time and breaks a rule = kick/ban (deepening on rule broken). We do give players what they deserve in game when it is needed. However, each person will interpret what a person deservers differently and a major problem now is the lack of respect for players and admins by certain players. Some who think saying "You bitch" is a flame and instant ban. Some who "flame bait" then deny they have done anything wrong.
Well, i don't ask for admins that take actions narrowminded, sure there is a need to decide every issue for itself, and i agree with taking different actions on new and old, on different players. But common sense and courtesy aren't called 'common' for no reason. I believe there are limits on how much rule breaks should pass through unharmed, how much flame an admin should take for '18+ game ::)'. And in my opinion there are too much players which have allready exceeded that limit.
And i agree that sometimes it's funny, and if it goes within a normal discussion it's ok. (I confess that sometimes even i flame ;) ) But if it doesn't stop for ages, and it is clearly visible that none of the involved persons can lead the discussion to a satisfaction, a compromise or even an end - Then it should be ended. No one benefits of eternal flamewars, not the involved ppl, not the uninvolved players, not the server.
And i believe that the current societal changes require to lower these limits, otherwise changes may overtake the gaming experience and destroy it.
When i come in to game i rarely see flaming (prob cus i get bored and ban people involved - always fun). I also rarely see people not using common sense (unless i ban them, then they are idiots).
Well on LW's there's still more respect to the staff then on much other servers. Ppl mostly rulebreak, cheat and hack when no admins are online :D
Umm thats all i can think of as a reply. Let me know if it makes sense D:
I thought about it. I replied. Hence it does. (At least for me) :D Thx for sharing your thoughts.
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I believe there are limits on how much rule breaks should pass through unharmed, how much flame an admin should take for '18+ game ::)'. And in my opinion there are too much players which have already exceeded that limit.
I could not say one way or other (not enough info). One thing i can think of is that other admins may not be aware of earlier actions (i.e. PLayer X is kicked by me for flame. Another admin (when i have gone) sees player X who is on a final warning, but does not realise this, and again kicks. It looks like were being "soft" and illogical, when in fact we all think he is on his first warning. We do keep some logs, so telling an admin "hey Player X been kicked for that once/twice,etc" we can look it up or ask for details from the other admin, and punish that player better.
No one benefits of eternal flame wars, not the involved ppl, not the uninvolved players, not the server.
Agreed.
I have nothing more to add at this time. If i am on line (as i am sure most admins) we do try to stop flaming/chitters (ofc), etc. and use common sense (i also use what little sanity i have left) to punish players appropriately.
As i say at the moment my life is taking over, and craps happenings (seems to be raining it at times). However, if i can i will try to be in game more (would not expect that for a little while. This things that happening is dragging out and out and out)
Just as a reminder, although admins are not always in game i know that I have my IRC set up (when its open and connected) to show me any reports. (and not just show up, it alerts me...so i know instantly). Any flames/some chits I can look up from irc and punish players or talk to them.
I can not think of much more to add.
Some one wish me luck though...i have a feeling i will need it...sigh.
("I hearing them saying tomorrows just another day, i hear them saying it gets better every day, i hear them saying...")
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well i still dont really get the point of this topic but whatever.
i think the time is over where players take admins seriously. some regular players really think the way "hey im an old fuck and the server is super dead so nobody will bother to catch me if i /q once in a while".
the server seems to be at a state where nobody cares about anything. in 30 minutes i see so much bullshit.. its unbelievable.
it looks like many regulars only join the server because of their habits and not because they want to have fun. at least thats what many regulars look like when i see them playing nowadays. mindly retarded zombies who are trying to get some attention on a half ded server..
you can create as much topics as you want. the server needs MORE and DIFFERENT players or nothing will change ever again.
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well i still dont really get the point of this topic but whatever.
i think the time is over where players take admins seriously. some regular players really think the way "hey im an old fuck and the server is super dead so nobody will bother to catch me if i /q once in a while".
the server seems to be at a state where nobody cares about anything. in 30 minutes i see so much bullshit.. its unbelievable.
it looks like many regulars only join the server because of their habits and not because they want to have fun. at least thats what many regulars look like when i see them playing nowadays. mindly retarded zombies who are trying to get some attention on a half ded server..
you can create as much topics as you want. the server needs MORE and DIFFERENT players or nothing will change ever again.
but even just share an opinion and talk about it isn't bad
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well i still dont really get the point of this topic but whatever.
i think the time is over where players take admins seriously. some regular players really think the way "hey im an old fuck and the server is super dead so nobody will bother to catch me if i /q once in a while".
the server seems to be at a state where nobody cares about anything. in 30 minutes i see so much bullshit.. its unbelievable.
it looks like many regulars only join the server because of their habits and not because they want to have fun. at least thats what many regulars look like when i see them playing nowadays. mindly retarded zombies who are trying to get some attention on a half ded server..
you can create as much topics as you want. the server needs MORE and DIFFERENT players or nothing will change ever again.
Completely agree.
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I could not say one way or other (not enough info). One thing i can think of is that other admins may not be aware of earlier actions (i.e. PLayer X is kicked by me for flame. Another admin (when i have gone) sees player X who is on a final warning, but does not realise this, and again kicks. It looks like were being "soft" and illogical, when in fact we all think he is on his first warning. We do keep some logs, so telling an admin "hey Player X been kicked for that once/twice,etc" we can look it up or ask for details from the other admin, and punish that player better.
Yes it's logical that you can't always know who has been kicked and punished before how many times, and that isn't really my main concern, especially nowadays ppl get punished every minute and it's expectable and acceptable that admins lose track of it. My concern is more about single specific actions, but, as you said correctly, different for different players.
If i am on line (as i am sure most admins) we do try to stop flaming/chitters (ofc), etc. and use common sense (i also use what little sanity i have left) to punish players appropriately.
;D I'm sure admins are sane more or less. I meant that players should use more common sense. :D
As i say at the moment my life is taking over, and craps happenings (seems to be raining it at times). However, if i can i will try to be in game more (would not expect that for a little while. This things that happening is dragging out and out and out)
I can not think of much more to add.
Some one wish me luck though...i have a feeling i will need it...sigh.
("I hearing them saying tomorrows just another day, i hear them saying it gets better every day, i hear them saying...")
Good luck bro. :)
well i still dont really get the point of this topic but whatever.
[i think the time is over where players take admins seriously. some regular players really think the way "hey im an old fuck and the server is super dead so nobody will bother to catch me if i /q once in a while".
the server seems to be at a state where nobody cares about anything. in 30 minutes i see so much bullshit.. its unbelievable.
it looks like many regulars only join the server because of their habits and not because they want to have fun. at least thats what many regulars look like when i see them playing nowadays. mindly retarded zombies who are trying to get some attention on a half ded server..
you can create as much topics as you want. the server needs MORE and DIFFERENT players or nothing will change ever again.]
;D what are you complaining about? I see you totally got what i wanted to say with this topic. ;D
but even just share an opinion and talk about it isn't bad
Yep that's where i aimed to. Just sharing opinions without any evaluation. ;) (Or at least not so much ::) )