littlewhitey's Servers Forum (SA-MP/VC-MP/MTA/Zomboid)

Other => Off-Topic => Technical Support => Topic started by: Faraday on March 27, 2012, 05:42:42 AM

Title: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: Faraday on March 27, 2012, 05:42:42 AM
Well title says it all, I'd like to rebuild/update my pc and the only thing I wanna keep for sure is my Nvidia GeForce GTX 550 Ti (and my case lol).
I also have an older GT8600 lying around which I would like to use, because 2 is better than one right?

I'd like to build a performance machine, because when my old one died, the guys in the shop replaced my mobo for some lame crap etc...
Current system:
- AMD Phenom X4 Quad-Core 2.3GHz
- 4GB RAM
- Some lame Asus AMD 2+ supporting sucky motherboard
- HDD's

Could I get some tips on very good performance material, and what to choose according to motherboards which can hold the two GPU's?

Fire your suggestions away! Price doesn't really matter much, as long as it isn't over the top :)
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: [eVo]PvtBenny on March 27, 2012, 10:01:50 AM
Its not really the Motherboard you should look at when it comes to 2 GPU's The only thing u need to worry about for your motherboard is that it supports 2 GPU's and if you got enough space to place the 2 cards (Some cards can take up to 2 or even 3 PCI slots. Another thing you have to worry about is the PSU and in particular a PSU that has enough amps on the 12v rail.

Look for performance PSU's that have been thoroughly tested on Crossfire or Sli (what ever you decide to pick ATI or Nvidia)

Anyway you cannot and should not ever use the older GT8600 with the newer GTX550. The main reason would be that they are completely different GPU's they run on different speeds, memory clock, processor clock etc etc. Different chipsets etc etc. If you want 2 GPU's pick 2 of the same cards, (same brand same model etc etc because theres even a difference between the same GPU but different brands as well)

Anyway upgrade to AM3 or AM3+, AM2/AM2+ is going to disappear from the market. And Intel would be a better choice for doing Sli / Crossfire because of the processing power Intel has.

Just to go 5 steps ahead of you, if you decide to pick 2 of the same GPU cards. Look into liquid cooling. Because 2 cards directly above eachother could give heat problems because the air trapped between the cards would heat up the bottom card alot more than the card above it. But a good airflow could work out as well using a fan on the side panel if you got a case for it (make sure it fits with the cards though)

Some more specific information about your current system would be much more appreciated. I would like to know the following:
- AMD Phenom X4 Quad-Core 2.3GHz                                     Which one because i have an AMD Phenom x4 Quad core as well so let me know if its a 955 or 945 or something
- 4GB RAM                                                                        Brand? What Mhz is it? Which stepping?
- Some lame Asus AMD 2+ supporting sucky motherboard            Brand ? Model number?
- HDD's                                                                               Sata 1, Sata 2 or Sata 3?
 Powersupply (PSU) Brand? Type? Modelnumber?


Would be good to know what budget you are on to see if its worth upgrading your current system or just go onto a new PC.

Personal interest:
What brand is the GT8600 ? I have got one myself and ive been looking for a GT8600 of the same brand. To check if i can put them in Sli.
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: BikeDriver on March 27, 2012, 03:50:43 PM
Its not really the Motherboard you should look at when it comes to 2 GPU's The only thing u need to worry about for your motherboard is that it supports 2 GPU's

my dear friend... thats absolutely wrong.
the most important thing when it comes to 2 graphics cards are the lanes.

crap motherboards with 2 PCIe 16x slots will not have 16/16 lanes (16 = full speed). they will have 16/8 or even 16/4 which means the second graphics card can only opperate on 4 lanes.

if you want to install 2 graphics cards then take a fucking look at the fucking lanes. buy one which supports 16/16. or one with 3 slots which supports 16/16/4.
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: Faraday on March 27, 2012, 04:12:12 PM
Ok that's a lot of info I don't have. Well, Benny, you make a difference between updating my pc and getting a new one, but to me that's almost the same. Updating my pc in this case means just probably keeping my hard drives.

On a side note: If I can't use my old GPU, is it advised to get 2 GPU's? I don't have a good history with buying new parts and making it work flawlessly, so if you say I could get in trouble with overheating, I'll probably not do it.

The fact is, my pc is working hard to play games atm. My AMD still is AM2 so I was planning on upgrading, but since the shop provided me a seriously crappy mobo which only supports 4GB RAM, one GPU an nothing after AM2, I'd have to change that.

I just want a good rig which can last a while. My main interests are playing BF3, LA Noire, GTA IV (and V eventually) on really high settings. My current setup doesn't let me get those settings, or it looks like shit, and I know it's not the GTX550 Ti.

So any suggestions of kits I can buy (as in products/models/links) of products who are also available in Belgium would be awesome. I don't know alot about that stuff, like lanes, speeds or whatnot but I can fit the pieces together.
Budget is not really an issue. Maybe not over 1000 euro's :p

edit: for those specific questions about model numbers of mobo's, RAM etc I would have to take apart my PC, so I rather not do that because as long as it's working I try not to work on it as much as I can. Last time I took out some RAM to see what kind of RAM I had and it 'magically' quitted on me.
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: BikeDriver on March 27, 2012, 04:40:30 PM
cpu...
either AMD or intel. about 300-400 €price range:

either:
AMD FX-8150
or
Intel Core i7-3820
or even
Intel Core i7-3930K (expensive)


graphics card is easy. just buy latest ATI. probably the one for 300 monies if you want to stay under 1000 monies. dont buy nvidia right now because they are about to release new nvidia in few months. so radeon 7870 or 7950 it is. you can choose of course :)

motherboard.. well if you buy those graphics card then 1 slot is all you need lol but those have more slots anyway so whatever:
for amd: GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-D3
for intel: GIGABYTE X79-UD3


Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: [eVo]PvtBenny on March 27, 2012, 05:43:04 PM
Bikedriver

That shit is pretty obvious dont you think. Hence why i did not mention it. If you want 2 run 2 graphics cards u need 2x x16. Also another fact would be that if you use Sli or Crossfire the second card is simply there for backup and mostly uses just 20 % of its capacity to assist the primary card. Could be different now i don't know that. And what ever you where talking about ive got no idea. All i know is that PCI-E x16 is for graphics cards. never heard of any PCI-E x16 slot that would make a graphics card run slower than supposed to.

Anyway if you need help putting a PC together just let me know on Steam or IRC. And ill help you get parts its easier since we both speak same language atleast i think it would be easier.

For 1000 euro budget range i could put something nice together for you.




Edit:
Just for fun i put together a PC.

CPU:      AMD FX 8150 Black Edition 3.6GHz 8MB AM3+              http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/292705/amd-fx-8150-black-edition.html
Mobo:    ASRock 970 Extreme4                                             http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/285746/asrock-970-extreme4.html#tab:prices
GFX:      MSI Radeon R7770-2PMD1GD5/OC - 1GB - PCI-E         http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/303903/msi-r7770-2pmd1gd5-oc.html
GFX2:     MSI Radeon R7770-2PMD1GD5/OC - 1GB - PCI-E             http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/303903/msi-r7770-2pmd1gd5-oc.html
Memory:   Kingston ValueRAM 16 GB DDR3-1333Mhz Quad-Kit        http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/302302/kingston-kvr1333d3n9k4-16g.html
PSU:      Cooler Master - Silent Pro M1000 - 1000 Watt            http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/247888/cooler-master-silent-pro-m1000.html#tab:prices
Case:     Cooler Master HAF 912 Plus                                          http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/265047/cooler-master-haf-912-plus.html#tab:prices
Cooling:   2x 120mm 1x 200mm                            Ive used Cooler Master Fans, red LED. But you can pick others to your choosing ofcourse.

Got up to 1000 Euro for this setup.

Edit2:
Changed it to a full PC without HDD's and Operating system (Windows, Linux etc etc)


http://i.imgur.com/yep9m.jpg
This is my PC by the way, just so you can see how nice the PC case is. And how easy it is to replace HDD's no need for screws etc etc. If you put in an extra 50 to 100 euro you could add some extra cooling. Just to be on the save side etc etc. Ive done that last summer added new CPU cooler, aftermarket GPU cooler and new case and fans. Its up to 30 celcius cooler since i done that.
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: BikeDriver on March 27, 2012, 08:26:13 PM
That shit is pretty obvious dont you think. Hence why i did not mention it. If you want 2 run 2 graphics cards u need 2x x16. Also another fact would be that if you use Sli or Crossfire the second card is simply there for backup and mostly uses just 20 % of its capacity to assist the primary card. Could be different now i don't know that. And what ever you where talking about ive got no idea. All i know is that PCI-E x16 is for graphics cards. never heard of any PCI-E x16 slot that would make a graphics card run slower than supposed to.

you are rather a wannabe if you never heard of it.

also that you never heard of it is just another proof that it is NOT OBVIOUS. thats why i mentioned it.
its VERY often the case that even some "high end" motherboards with 8 PCI-e slots can only do 16/8/8/8/8/8/8/8. they can also run as 16/16/16/16/8/0/0/0 of course.

those motherboards are listed as ones with 8x PCI-E x16 which means that 8x PCI-E x16 doesnt mean that your motherboard is awesome because the number of lanes is what matters most here.

so stop denying that you failed you suckface, because.. YOU FAILED SUCKFACE:)

btw the mobo you suggested to fara is trash because it has 3 PCI-E x16 slots but only 16 lanes overall. which means either 16/0/0 or 8/8/0 or 8/4/4. pretty pathetic for a mobo with 3 slots, dont you think, mister all knowing master PC pimper? funny.. you just said that you know how to select a motherboard because you know what PCI-E x16 means :'(
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: Faraday on March 27, 2012, 09:00:56 PM
don't hijack my topic with insulting people. I came here for help, and that's what I would like. I already mentioned I have absolutely no idea what 'lanes' mean, so I'm not interested in why you know that much more about it.
I just want a high-end pc for a decent price.

Another question: my HDD's are SATA2, should I also upgrade to SATA3 or what's the benefit of it?

I think it's pretty clear now that I won't be using 2 GPU's as you both suggested to buy new ones. I want to still use my GTX550 Ti, because that was the latest (not even all games supported it) when I bought it last year. I highly doubt that it's gone out of fashion or lacks performance these days..
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: [eVo]PvtBenny on March 28, 2012, 11:57:25 AM
btw the mobo you suggested to fara is trash because it has 3 PCI-E x16 slots but only 16 lanes overall. which means either 16/0/0 or 8/8/0 or 8/4/4. pretty pathetic for a mobo with 3 slots, dont you think, mister all knowing master PC pimper? funny.. you just said that you know how to select a motherboard because you know what PCI-E x16 means :'(

Never mentioned or said that im a "all knowing PC pimper" , and never said i knew how to select a motherboard. I said i know that a graphics card needs a PCI-e x16 slot to be able to operate. I know that a second graphics card would most likely run at 20 % capacity because its only there to assist when the primary card has used all its capacity and that goes for almost all PC setups. Eitherway i know enough to help Faraday out to select some options for his upgrade.

Anyway in my honest opinion you start to become more and more of an asshole these days bikedriver.... I never even tried to insult you in this topic and yet you insult me on purpose through all your replies.

Back on topic:

Sata 3 would be a good idea to upgrade to. I have a motherboard that supports Sata 2 and Sata 3. But it would be more interesting to use a SSD for the operating system (maybe a few games on it aswell) and use some SATA 3 HDD's. That stuff would probably run into the 400 euro's though alltogether so you would have about 600 left for the rest of the PC which would be enough considering you dont need a new graphics card as you said. Anyway the benefit would be the difference between speed. Sata 2 runs at 3 Gbps and the Sata 3 does 6 Gbps transfer speed. Sata 2 is also known as Sata 300 and Sata 3 as Sata600. Benefit would basically be higher speeds with transfer, read and write.

If you want you could buy a second GTX550 TI of the same brand and same make/model So that it will be almost identical to the one you have (i say almost identical because not 1 piece of hardware is the same, not even Memory modules from the same batch and series)

Just replace the 2 video cards on the list i gave you, and change the motherboard to something bikedriver would pick.

Heres the list of the new setup with the GTX550 TI
CPU:      AMD FX 8150 Black Edition 3.6GHz 8MB AM3+              http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/292705/amd-fx-8150-black-edition.html
Mobo:    ASRock Fatal1ty 990FX Professional                          http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/286666/asrock-fatal1ty-990fx-professional.html
GFX:      Club 3D GeForce GTX 550Ti                                    (Could be different brand like Matrox or another brand that has a GTX 550 TI GPU chipset) Just make sure its the same you got right now
Memory:   Kingston ValueRAM 16 GB DDR3-1333Mhz Quad-Kit        http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/302302/kingston-kvr1333d3n9k4-16g.html
PSU:      Cooler Master - Silent Pro M1000 - 1000 Watt            http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/247888/cooler-master-silent-pro-m1000.html#tab:prices
Cooling:    You got to see about that stuff yourself as you want to keep your case. Add extra fans if you have open slots for it. If not you might want to invest in a new case with good airflow and cable management. To optimize the cooling capabilities because you dont want to run a PC to hot nowadays specially with the summer comming up. Last summer my PC ran up to 65 celsius on graphics card and 60 celsius on CPU. With the new cooling its running 30c cooler on load and idle even cooler.

As i understand it right now, the mobo on this list does 16 lanes 16 lanes and 4 lanes eitherway ill let bikedriver bitch at me again about that if im wrong.

If you dont want the second graphics card make sure to change the Powersupply to something like 700 - 750 Watts (could be to much still im not entirely sure how much your graphics card uses at the moment. The new CPU runs at 125 Watts i believe which is pretty standard for most CPU's of AMD

Let me know exactly what you would like and what you dont want. And ill probably be able to help you out even more.
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: BikeDriver on March 28, 2012, 03:03:05 PM
As i understand it right now, the mobo on this list does 16 lanes 16 lanes and 4 lanes eitherway ill let bikedriver bitch at me again about that if im wrong.

no this time you are right my dear motherfucking friend :). the Asrock Fatal1ty 990FX can do 16/16/4.

also i basically agree to the rest you have said. but i wouldnt buy a SATA ssd. i would go for a PCIe one like OCZ RevoDrive. those are extremely awesome. also i dont think he needs sata 3 for his movies and stuff.

also i missed that he has a GTX 550 right now. i would keep it until you cant play the latest game on max. settings. then buy new one. i wouldnt buy a second GTX 550.
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: n1K on March 28, 2012, 04:01:15 PM
Sorry to go offtopic, but couldnt resist. :P  Here it goes again. BikeDriver vs WildStyleZx89, the tech war.  :D
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: [eVo]PvtBenny on March 28, 2012, 05:05:40 PM
Sorry to go offtopic, but couldnt resist. :P  Here it goes again. BikeDriver vs WildStyleZx89, the tech war.  :D

Theres no war m8 if there was it would have been alot worse. Which it isnt cuz im distancing myself from his insults cuz i simply cant be bothered. And Bikedriver is not like the other idiots (665, Gryphus) Hes a special idiot >:D

Ontopic:
I dont know much about SSD versus HDD yet or the PCI or SATA versions of it. All i know is that SSD is a shitload faster.

I do agree with bikedriver about not buying a second GTX550 but if you really wanted it go for it. Plus by the time you do need a new graphics card to max out games. Theres alot of newer cards out at pretty much the same price as the one you got now (about 150 euro) So it would be better to buy new cards then or just the 1 awesome card that has better performance (about 300 or 400 euro).

Btw buy this instead: 3200 GB PCIe SDD at 19.000 euro
http://www.alternate.nl/html/product/Solid_State_Drive_PCI_Express/OCZ/ZD4CM88-FH-3.2T/615533/?tn=HARDWARE&l1=Harddisks&l2=Solid+State+Drives&l3=mini-PCIe+%2F+PCIe
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: Faraday on March 28, 2012, 05:24:02 PM
Okay, thanks you guys, this is a lot of info which can help me. When I'm on holiday, I'm going to get a better look into all of it ( in one or 2 weeks ) and I'll buy my stuff.

DVD Burner and other goofy stuffs comes later.

Allthough I'll probably go for SATA3, since I've never experienced any problem in speed with my current SATA2 disks..
Can't find it at the moment, but does the mobo also support SATA2? I'll probably still use my current disks, but just as storage devices like for music/images/movies. I'll buy one SATA3 disk and partition it to hold my system and games disk.

Also, I have this one store where I buy all of my stuff, and most of the time they got what I want, but I see they don't have the ASrock Fatality. I'll look up a replacement (when I'm about to buy) and post a link here to see if I'm not buying anything stupid).

Thanks!
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: [eVo]PvtBenny on March 28, 2012, 07:30:11 PM
Its backwards compatible Faraday.

If the SATA III (6 gbps aka SATA600 ) Motherboard detects a SATA II (3 Gbps aka SATA300) HDD it will automatically use it as SATA II. Anyway if you buy it all in a shop just be sure to ask for that. And google is also your best friend.
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: iMJets on March 28, 2012, 08:34:37 PM
Misunderstood what you wanted at first, if you need help PM me.
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: Faraday on March 28, 2012, 09:16:35 PM
And google is also your best friend.

lol I know but googling all of that stuff takes me quite a while and I don't have alot of free time, so I thought about it and I know there are some nerds in here, so why not ask for help?
Anyways, I appreciate your help and your long posts, I'll be sure to check in here before I make any purchases!
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: BikeDriver on March 28, 2012, 09:33:04 PM
haha he called you nerd, wild nerd ;D
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: [eVo]PvtBenny on March 29, 2012, 01:34:33 AM
.. I know there are some nerds ..

haha he called you nerd, wild nerd ;D

nerds plural of the word nerd.

In layman words, theres more than 1 nerd on here.

Seeing as you posted in this topic aswell bikedriver im pretty sure he meant the both of us :P.

So congrats my fellow nerd bikedriver >:D

Ontopic:
Yea just let us nerds know what you are going to do, which setup you are picking out, brands etc etc

Also in one of your previous posts you mentioned that you buy all your stuff in 1 place. Can you give me the website of that place so i can scout out the goodies they are selling. See if i can get something from it and post back here so i can let the other nerd aka bikedriver know and see what he thinks.
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: [eVo]PvtBenny on March 29, 2012, 05:37:24 PM
Sorry for double post


I found this setup for Faraday and i would like to see what you think of it Bikedriver (and other nerds alike)

CPU:         AMD FX 8150 (3.6GHz) 8MB - 8 Cores - With Cooler (FD8150FRGUBOX)                              (One piece of awesomeness)
MOBO:      ASUS Crosshair V Formula (Socket AM3-AMD 990FX-ATX-DDR3) (CROSSHAIR V FORMULA)     (Supports the 8 cores CPU i have picked out)
RAM:         Kingston 16GB (4x 4GB) 1600MHz DDR3 HyperX Lifetime Warranty (KHX1600C9D3K4/16GX)
PSU:         Corsair Enthusiast Series TX750W V2 750 Watt (CMPSU-750TXV2EU)                                 (Sli ready, Should be enough for a second GTX550 ti)

GFX:         ASUS Ati Radeon HD7850 DirectCU II 2GB GDDR5 (90-C1CRS0-L0UAY0BZ)                           (If you decide to get a new GFX and not use the GTX550 this would be a nice choice)
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: BikeDriver on March 30, 2012, 03:16:37 PM
looks fine to me besides this:

he doesnt need 16 GB ram, neither a 750 watt PSU nor such an expensive mobo.

RAM:
the choice is alright but 8 GB ram will be fairly enough to run any game in the next 5 years. when games come which need more RAM there will be DDR4 already so its waste of monies (even if ram is cheap nowadays he will never need more than 8 GB in the next 5 years)
buy instead:
Kingston HyperX DIMM 8 GB DDR3-1600 Kit
~50 instead of ~100 monies

PSU:
he decided not to do SLI so a PSU around 500 watt will be fairly enough too :)
buy a
be quiet! Pure Power L7 530W
i use the same. i even did a SLI with radeon 5770 and it worked fine.
~ 60 instead of ~100 monies

MOBO:
he doesnt need 4 PCIe x16 slots. he (and we too) decided that SLI is not needed. so there is no absolutely no point in buying an expensive motherboard. buy something for around 90 monies. for example:
GIGABYTE GA-970A-UD3. as long as you neither want to do SLI nor overclocking bullshit then you wont need anything more expensive. the motherboard has 16/4 lanes so for SLI its useless but for single graphics card its awesome.
~ 90 instead of ~230 monies


i would buy some SSD with the spared cash (~230 € monies). for example:
OCZ RevoDrive3 PCIe SSD 120 GB
that costs around 300 monies but it is totally worth it. trusted me:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

have fucking fun! :)
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: [eVo]PvtBenny on March 30, 2012, 04:53:26 PM
looks fine to me besides this:

he doesnt need 16 GB ram, neither a 750 watt PSU nor such an expensive mobo.

He does for the things he uses it for. Video editting, music making/editting other stuff.
Not only would the CPU be 125Watts the GTX550 uses around 400watts (not to mention the other parts) So constantly maxing out a shitty PSU at 530watts is surely going to bottleneck the system.


RAM:
the choice is alright but 8 GB ram will be fairly enough to run any game in the next 5 years. when games come which need more RAM there will be DDR4 already so its waste of monies (even if ram is cheap nowadays he will never need more than 8 GB in the next 5 years)
buy instead:
Kingston HyperX DIMM 8 GB DDR3-1600 Kit
~50 instead of ~100 monies

I doubt he will keep the system you suggest the same in the next 5 years. He will most likely upgrade RAM and GPU in those 5 years. So a better PSU and 16 gigs of ram would be a good idea.

PSU:
he decided not to do SLI so a PSU around 500 watt will be fairly enough too :)
buy a
be quiet! Pure Power L7 530W
i use the same. i even did a SLI with radeon 5770 and it worked fine.
~ 60 instead of ~100 monies

I know that he decided not to do SLI, but he might decide to use SLi in the future with either a second GTX550 or 2 new cards. Plus the HD5770 runs at 300 or 350 watts which is considered low if you see how much Nvidia cards use and high end cards even more. Plus the be quiet brand is a low to mid end PSU at best. They tend to say they have more Wattage when in fact they only provide 500 instead of mentioned 530. Go for Coolermaster Corsair or Antec instead those are performance PSU's or even OCZ

MOBO:
he doesnt need 4 PCIe x16 slots. he (and we too) decided that SLI is not needed. so there is no absolutely no point in buying an expensive motherboard. buy something for around 90 monies. for example:
GIGABYTE GA-970A-UD3. as long as you neither want to do SLI nor overclocking bullshit then you wont need anything more expensive. the motherboard has 16/4 lanes so for SLI its useless but for single graphics card its awesome.
~ 90 instead of ~230 monies

The Motherboard might have been a little to much, maybe the ASUS M5A88-V EVO (Socket AM3+-AMD 880G-ATX-DDR3) (90-MIBFZ0-G0EAY0GZ)
 would have been a much better choice.

BTW always go for ATX they give you the most space to put cards and what not on it. Plus overall performance on ATX boards are higher than the uATX or MicroATX boards.

Problem is. Some motherboards support only different kinds of RAM speed depending on which typ of processor they use. And some CPU's only support certain RAM speeds as well.
It was an easy choice picking out the best motherboard.

i would buy some SSD with the spared cash (~230 € monies). for example:
OCZ RevoDrive3 PCIe SSD 120 GB
that costs around 300 monies but it is totally worth it. trusted me:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

have fucking fun! :)

I would actually wait till prices drop down and more mid end to high end SSD's are actually affordable for everyone. Like let it drop down to atleast 200 or 175 euro for your suggested SSD.

Eitherway he said he wants performance and not go back to the low to mid end crap he uses now. Hence why i went a little overboard.
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: BikeDriver on March 30, 2012, 08:32:28 PM
i just accidently deleted my message -.- fuck.

whatever lets make this short:

wildfriend no offend but you really seem to have no idea what you are talking about. you talk down on brands only because they are cheap without giving any real reasons. why should he buy an expensive PSU? why should he buy a more expensive mobo than which i recommended? you also made up the whole thing about 500 watt instead of 530 in your mind. prove me wrong with a link. be quiet is one fucking awesome and cheap brand. i have no idea why you lie to talk down on them for absolutely no reason. i use one of their PSUs for 4 years now, computer sometimes 24/7 running. i cant hear it and i never had ANY trouble with it EVER. also just take a look at the ratings by the users. be quiet PSUs are no shitty crap.

also editing tools do not need a lot of ram. programs to make (??????) music neither. the only programs that do need a lot of ram are virtual machines. the stuff you mentioned doesnt. rendering and stuff like that needs a powerful CPU not a lot of ram. i guess you got yourself confused here.

when the time comes where people need more than 8 gig there will be DDR4, as i said.

also 400 watt for a GTX 550? wtf? are you crazy? that thing uses around 120 watt at max. those 400 watt are the recommended minimum for the PSU if you use the card.
also a HD 5770 doesnt use 300 - 350 watt (again WTF???) it uses barely more than 100.

so why should he buy a bigger PSU if he only needs about 300 watt for all his stuff? much to learn you have..

and why should he buy a ASUS M5A88-V EVO instead of GIGABYTE GA-970A-UD3?
because asus is the more popular brand? they both run at 16/4 lanes so there is actually no big difference between them (besides the price :P).

wildfrend i really always enjoyed to discuss with you but this time you pretty much failed constantly.
you should not try to enforce yourself unless you really know what you are talking about. and you really dont seem to.

faraday for you again my recomendation:
TaskItemPowerPrice
PSUbe quiet! Pure Power L7 530W+530Watt60€
CPUAMD FX 8150-125 Watt220€
RAMKingston HyperX DIMM 8 GB DDR3-1600 Kit-10Watt50€
SSDOCZ RevoDrive3 PCIe SSD 120 GB-10Watt300€
MotherboardGIGABYTE GA-970A-UD3-10Watt90€
Current Graphics CardGTX550 Ti-120Watt0€
Your old HDD/DVD etc.--50Watt0€
OverallMega PC+205 Watt720€

thats quite perfect for 720€... you should also buy a proper CPU fan and some cool new case. but you can surely stay below 800 € monies easily.
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: [eVo]PvtBenny on March 31, 2012, 02:43:10 AM
Made me crack up when you said lets make it short and post an entire review xD

When i went on my search for a PC, i went to about 6 different shops, went to PC forums etc etc for help. When i got to one of the shops i had my mind set on one of those Be Quiet PSU's as it was recommended by 1 other shop. Then some guy stumbles into the shop with his PC saying his PSU burned out for the second time. Both being the exact same PSU's i was going to get. Either call that a coincidence or just stupid. But that guys PC system should have handled it. Thats when i stepped away from be Quiet.

You dont want to mess about with PSU's i bought a 650 watt PSU for this PC i have now i was recommended a 600 watt one of the same brand. And my PC peaks at 550 watt when on full load and 600 on full load when using OC settings. Which tells me i done good by getting the extra 50 watts. I also now know that its better to have a higher PSU wattage than your PC actually uses. When the PSU constantly is reaching its max it will heat up and burn out sooner than expected. Ive also asked my dad (hes a retired electrician) about what would be better to have something constantly run on its full potential or something run at half potential and some leg room. Guess what he said the half potential one ofcourse...

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-5870,2422-20.html

I have a 5870. On full load it runs at about 400 Watts (its slightly overclocked) With that comes my CPU at 125 watts (more when overclocked) And then the rest of my PC.

Most graphics cards run a pretty high wattage these days, and the more speed they get the more power they will consume.

Powerconsumption on his GTX 550:
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2011/03/15/nvidia-geforce-gtx-550-ti-1gb-review/10

Powerconsumption on the HD5770: (alot more than ur barely 100 watts right hmm ?)
http://www.techspot.com/review/209-ati-radeon-hd-5770/page11.html


I would say 750 might be overkill unless you plan a future SLI or Crossfire setup. But 600watt is deffo the minimum for him

Ive actually had a Gigabyte motherboard myself, and i was happy with it. I just think he can do better with possible upgrades in the future.

Anyway when it comes down to the RAM, you need to both pick out the CPU and motherboard very carefully. Not only should the motherboard support the RAM speed. The CPU needs to aswell.

Heres a fact for you: * AMD FX Series CPU on this motherboard supports up to DDR3 1866MHz as its standard memory frequency.*  If your motherboard supported like 2133Mhz and you picked out 2133Mhz RAM it would only run at 1866Mhz as thats what the CPU would allow. Making the RAMs potential useless.

The gigabyte board would be the better choice, but when you see that it has 2 Bios setups, incase 1 bios crashes or what ever the second one takes over. Its a good failsafe but also tells me Gigabyte is not that confident about their BIOS chipset choices...

So yea think again before accusing me of not knowing what i talk about when it comes to power consumption.... You dont even know how much yours even uses.

One last bit here: Recommending SSD now is stupid, It might be faster etc etc but the pricetag is seriously not convincing for people on a budget. He is better off using the HDDs for now (as do i) And wait for prices to drop and new SSD releases. 300 bucks for 120 gig with much more speed < 120 bucks for 2TB and less speed. Yea i got my options weighed.

Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: BikeDriver on March 31, 2012, 09:46:53 AM
Made me crack up when you said lets make it short and post an entire review xD

yea i kinda lost control :P

i dont believe the test you have found.

http://www.geeks3d.com/20100226/the-real-power-consumption-of-73-graphics-cards/

here it says about 300 watt for the biggest dual gpu cards, about 110 for hd 5770.

on alternate there also always is the power consumption for each graphics card listed.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2011/03/15/nvidia-geforce-gtx-550-ti-1gb-review/10

here they say 200 watt for 5770 again.. i dont quite get it. i believed the stuff they wrote on alternate. maybe its because of the GPU fan? maybe they forced it (=the FAN) to run on 100% on some tests?

faradays PSU would have more than 200 watts left unused. i still dont think he needs a bigger PSU.
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: [eVo]PvtBenny on March 31, 2012, 01:19:28 PM
Like i said, having something run on full constantly is not good specially not when it comes to the Powersupply you want to have something left unused otherwise you would stress the PSU to much and it will heat up and burn out. If you have GFX of 300watt and a 140watt CPU get atleast a 600watt Powersupply it will last longer.


By the way you need to look at load and idle. On idle (when its not doing much) they dont consume much, But when in use like at about 80% they will use up to 300 each some even 400, dual cards will use even more. Why else would they sell PSUs ranging from 500 watts to up to 1200 watts. The 400 to 500 ones are for low to mid end PCs, 500 to 750 mid to high end and the 750 to 1200 mostly for highend PCs. That have like 1, 2 or even 3 or 4 video cards.

Anyway you need to check benchmarks. Alternate gets the information from the manufacturers which is not always correct. You need to know the power consumption on load and add about 50 watts on top of that because not every card is the same.
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: BikeDriver on March 31, 2012, 11:28:21 PM
you are making this stuff up.

i trust the watts that are mentioned on alternate. who knows what that retards did in their benchmarks. just look how different the results are on different sites. those guys just had no idea what they were doing.

alternate says a GTX 550 Ti uses less than 150 watt at max and i do believe that. who should know better than the manufacturer? i doubt that they lie about such important information. this discussion doesnt lead anywhere since we both are stubborn about this. faraday has to decide what way to go :)

i would buy cheaper mobo, psu and less ram but a SSD instead. you would go for a more expensive mobo, more powerful psu and more ram (which i think is just waste of monies).
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: [eVo]PvtBenny on April 01, 2012, 04:09:37 AM
You obviously do not know what your talking about.

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-550ti/specifications

Card uses a max of 116Watts

But more importantly The system would use 400 watts minimum. And thats without the CPUs wattage.

And a minimum 450 Watt is required for the HD5770 Which is also without the CPU.

http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/ati-radeon-hd-5000/hd-5770/Pages/ati-radeon-hd-5770-overview.aspx#3

Im not making this stuff up. Ive been looking into this stuff far more than you realize. When i was upgrading my old PC and years later when i bought and build this new self build PC. When you check the benchmarks and then the recommended Power supply wattage amount on the official site. Its close together. If you think im still making this up.

The results are different on those sites, and as i said cards with the same chipset from different brands be it a Matrox 550 or MSI 550, one could be using 400Watts other could use 300Watts. The slightest difference in memory speed, processor speed can increase or decrease the power consumption.

Ive just checked Alternate, And i noticed that they use the same descriptions on different brand models on the cards with the same chipset.

Those benchmarks on tomshardware are legit. Its a official PC forum thing. I would trust them anyday over a website like alternate who just sells the product.

They test each card between 2 or 4 hours. Enough time to get good readings. I doubt alternate tests their products. They just slap the label on they get from Nvidia.


Next time i would not go by what alternate says but what the actual company says that made the product. Which is far more accurate.
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: BikeDriver on April 01, 2012, 11:20:03 AM
so they recommend a 450 Watt power supply (probably with a safety of 150 free watts) for a single GPU. faraday is going to go single GPU so why not buy a 530 watt PSU?

"because it will live longer." yea sure but why should it? the 530 watt PSU is not going to run on 100%. maybe 60-70% but not more. you are still making up that those 550 gtx uses 300-400 watt. thats utter bullshit and im NEVER going to believe that. why are you trying so hard to talk faraday into taking the more expensive PSU?
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: EnzoMortelli on April 01, 2012, 12:59:19 PM
so they recommend a 450 Watt power supply (probably with a safety of 150 free watts) for a single GPU. faraday is going to go single GPU so why not buy a 530 watt PSU?

"because it will live longer." yea sure but why should it? the 530 watt PSU is not going to run on 100%. maybe 60-70% but not more. you are still making up that those 550 gtx uses 300-400 watt. thats utter bullshit and im NEVER going to believe that. why are you trying so hard to talk faraday into taking the more expensive PSU?

Cuz he works for the PSU-mafia.
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: [eVo]PvtBenny on April 01, 2012, 01:14:31 PM
so they recommend a 450 Watt power supply (probably with a safety of 150 free watts) for a single GPU. faraday is going to go single GPU so why not buy a 530 watt PSU?

"because it will live longer." yea sure but why should it? the 530 watt PSU is not going to run on 100%. maybe 60-70% but not more. you are still making up that those 550 gtx uses 300-400 watt. thats utter bullshit and im NEVER going to believe that. why are you trying so hard to talk faraday into taking the more expensive PSU?

You have a HD5770 right? Go benchmark it and see for yourself how much it actually uses.... You will be amazed. You obviously know nothing about power consumption. Even when i come with the official link to the Nvidia GTX550 website for proof you dont believe it. Well jokes on you bikedriver. You go ahead and burn out your PC.

For a system with a single GeForce GTX 550 Ti NVIDIA recommends a minimum of a 400 Watt or greater power supply with a minimum +12 Volt rail continuous current rating of 24 Amps or greater and with at least one 6-pin PCI Express supplementary power connector.  The CPU comes ontop of that and the other parts aswell, HDD, fans, DVD/Bluray drives and RAM. He would easily reach 600 Watts all together. Which you should give a little bit more leg room so a powersupply of 650 is perfect.

Why else would Nvidia recommend a 400watt powersupply for the GPU alone when it says it only uses 116 Watts. Simply because of the continues current rating of 24 amps it needs on the +12volt rail. The Wattage doesn't matter the Amps do. And the Be Quiet PurePower 530 only has 22 Amps on each rail which is not enough, the GTX550ti requires atleast 24 Amps or more.

I thought you knew about this but you clearly don't.
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: BikeDriver on April 01, 2012, 03:52:54 PM
The CPU comes ontop of that and the other parts aswell, HDD, fans, DVD/Bluray drives and RAM.

no it doesnt.

the 400 watts recommended are apparently for the entire PC not for only the graphics card.

and you never sent me an official link where it says that the GTX 550 Ti only uses 300-400 watt.

it is uttttttttttttttteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr bullshit
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: [eVo]PvtBenny on April 01, 2012, 05:05:52 PM
The CPU comes ontop of that and the other parts aswell, HDD, fans, DVD/Bluray drives and RAM.

no it doesnt.

the 400 watts recommended are apparently for the entire PC not for only the graphics card.

and you never sent me an official link where it says that the GTX 550 Ti only uses 300-400 watt.

it is uttttttttttttttteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr bullshit

Actually i did, the Nvidia link.

And how is Nvidia to know which CPU you are using... One CPU could be 140 Watts other 125 and another could be 180 or even more... They recommend that PSU wattage for theat card alone.

Also comming back on that +12volt and 24Amps thing. Doing +12Volt x 24Amps = 288Watts, now this link says that the Nvidia GTX550 used 287Watts on load.
http://www.legionhardware.com/articles_pages/gigabyte_geforce_gtx_550_ti,8.html
Coincidence ? No.

It will always use a constant of 24Amps, When a Graphics card is not being used it will drop back to about 5volts making it run at about 120Watts (Thats what they list, the idle power consumption) Its up to the customer usually to do the math on how much your Powersupply needs to be or have to run properly.

Heres my system:
CPU: AMD Phenom II x4 955 Black edition Requirement is 125Watts        At +3,1/3,5volt x 35/40Amps
GPU: Powercolor HD5870 PCS+ Minimum System requirement 500Watt         At +12volt x 40Amps

This together already makes up for 625Watts of my 650 Watts Powersupply.
The Graphics card will probably never use all of it i know that. But when it comes down to highend PC's You do really need a powerfull Powersupply.

If your smart you take my word for it. Because not only are these the cold hard facts, the proof is even there.

And Faraday said he did want to have a performance PC. So i dont know why you would pick out such low end stuff. Apart from the SSD.

I don't know if you have had tech class where you live, but here we do get it.

Heres something you have to learn when it comes to power consumption of anything:
http://www.ebtx.com/mech/ampvolt.htm

Most important one is Watts = Amps x Volt (Amps being the constant)
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: BikeDriver on April 01, 2012, 05:21:20 PM
so a GTX 550 is using like 400 watts.

a GTX 595 probably about 100000 watts.

8 of them in a octa sli or whatever it is called will then use around 80000000000 watts, then you will need a gigiantic round solar reactor around the sun to produce that power only to power your 8 graphics cards.


i definitely didnt miscalculate and now SHUT THE FUCK UP. :-*

530 watts will be enough period.
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: [eVo]PvtBenny on April 01, 2012, 06:52:05 PM
so a GTX 550 is using like 400 watts.

a GTX 595 probably about 100000 watts.

8 of them in a octa sli or whatever it is called will then use around 80000000000 watts, then you will need a gigiantic round solar reactor around the sun to produce that power only to power your 8 graphics cards.


i definitely didnt miscalculate and now SHUT THE FUCK UP. :-*

530 watts will be enough period.

Only problem is the GTX550 requires a minimum of 24 Amps on the 12 volt rail and the Be quiet 530 only has 22Amps on that 12volt rail. Which means he needs to get a different PSU anyway.

GTX590 runs at about 500Watts on load. Thats Without CPU and the rest.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2011/03/24/nvidia-geforce-gtx-590-3gb-review/8

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-590/specifications

Recommended is 700Watt powersupply.
1200Watt for Sli.
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: EnzoMortelli on April 01, 2012, 07:22:14 PM
1200 Watt oO
Who's gonna pay that bill, seriously.
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: BikeDriver on April 01, 2012, 11:53:42 PM
ok but who cares about this GTX 590 trash?

read this:

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-550ti/specifications

Thermal and Power Specs:
116 W Maximum Graphics Card Power (W)
400 W Minimum System Power Requirement (W)4


116 Watt. 400 Watt minimum PSU. 530 still not good enough?

i win and btw: FUCK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU ;D
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: [eVo]PvtBenny on April 02, 2012, 01:20:43 AM
*Sigh*

Thats the minimum power requirement for the Video card alone.

CPU, HDD's, Fans, Ram, DVD/Blu-ray Drives and everything else Excluded

Nvidia does not know what system you put the video card in so they can not give a recommended power of 400Watts for the entire system.

They can only give a recommendation for their product which is the GTX550 in this case and they gave their product a recommendation of 400Watts minimum. Thats without CPU fans etc etc as i mentioned before.


You keep forgetting that the minimum 400Watt PSU is only for the graphics card NOT the entire system. The entire system (including CPU, fans, HDDs etc etc) would most likely end up at 600 or 650 Watts recommended for a PSU.

Eitherway i know you will keep being stubborn and you know nothing about PSU's and you wont believe it even when proof is handed to you. Im done argueing about this i know im right and you clearly are not.
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: BikeDriver on April 02, 2012, 02:43:50 PM
then what are the

116 W Maximum Graphics Card Power (W)


seriously dude: are you mentally retarded?
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: [eVo]PvtBenny on April 02, 2012, 06:25:53 PM
then what are the

116 W Maximum Graphics Card Power (W)


seriously dude: are you mentally retarded?

So explain to me, Why in fucks name would they fabricate a 1200W powersupply if only the cardsuse 116 Watts. By what your saying a 800Watt powersupply should be more than capable of running 4 videocards and a CPU and the rest thats

GFX  4 x 116 = 464
CPU  1 x 125 = 125
Rest 1 x 100 = 100

Total:             689 Watts.

Yea get real dude...

The only mentally retarded with idiotic incapabilities here is you.

I suggest you read up on it. Because you obviously are not well informed (or not at all) as to how Powersupplies work....
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: BikeDriver on April 02, 2012, 07:22:56 PM
1200 watt powersupplys are for:
a) dumb retards who think that a single GTX 550 will use about 400 watt.
b) rich retards who want to use two high end dual GPU graphics cards.

nobody in the world with a 1200 watt PSU will use GTX 550. i do know that a GTX 590 will use like 300 watt if on 100%. unlike mid-end graphics cards those mosters are only designed for performance, not for effectiveness.

4 GTX 550 with 800 watt? seems pretty legit to me.

as i said i did 2 Radeon 5770 with 530 watt. worked well. oh btw i had 5 HDDs, DVD and a sound card running too.
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: [eVo]PvtBenny on April 02, 2012, 07:32:12 PM
1200 watt powersupplys are for:
a) dumb retards who think that a single GTX 550 will use about 400 watt.
b) rich retards who want to use two high end dual GPU graphics cards.

nobody in the world with a 1200 watt PSU will use GTX 550. i do know that a GTX 590 will use like 300-400 watt if on 100%. unlike mid-end graphics cards those mosters are only designed for performance, not for effectiveness.

4 GTX 550 with 800 watt? seems pretty legit to me.

as i said i did 2 Radeon 5770 with 530 watt. worked well. oh btw i had 5 HDDs, DVD and a sound card running too.

Then your PC obviously capped itself. And you where never running it at a full 100% potential....
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: BikeDriver on April 02, 2012, 07:34:31 PM
i played GTA IV with full details in FULL HD with 40 fps. that means it didnt reach the fps limitation of 55 so it probably was near 100%.
Title: Re: Updating my desktop pc!
Post by: Faraday on April 02, 2012, 08:11:37 PM
Okay, I'm gonna let you guys cool off. Due to unforseen circumstances, I'm going to have to postpone the purchase of my new pc. My car had to go into repair and it cost me a bunch of moneyz.. So the pc is being put off for a few weeks/months untill I can scramble some money again.

Closing this topic for now. Will reopen when ready.

@/Nos:

'Follow the price/performance range'. That's really good advice, but if I knew what products have a good price/performance ratio I wouldn't have to create this topic. I'm asking LW's community for help in building a first class gaming pc which can last a couple of years without having to update any time soon. I want to get rid of my loud mid-end beast who's gone a tad out of fashion. Also looking forward to playing newly bought games at freakishly ultra high settings (I wanna use the blur stuff in BF3, and want to play LA Noire at highest, and the same goes for GTA IV & V)