Author Topic: LW_LVDM 3.0.0 HAS BEEN RELEASED!  (Read 20136 times)

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Offline EnzoMortelli

Re: LW_LVDM 3.0.0 HAS BEEN RELEASED!
« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2014, 09:23:20 PM »
I forgot to add so many things....

3.0.0 and the later 3.0.1 were capable alpha versions, they had good ideas and would have solved many problems if continued. But if they were one thing, they were not yet fit for beta, and certainly not for the main server.

3.0.1 was actually ment to be a bug fix for 3.0.0, which it certainly did on some points, yet it desperately lacked features LW players love and wanted to see. 3.1 would've been the version for the addition of new features. If you want to ask what happened to this, ask where the development of 3.1 stands.

Offline Chainer

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Re: LW_LVDM 3.0.0 HAS BEEN RELEASED!
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2014, 09:20:36 AM »
I was inactive for the entire 3.0 development/release/trial, so I can't comment directly on what went on there. But I want to give a perspective on LW's codebase.

I just did a quick line count of LW's code, and it came out to just over 50,000 lines. When you're on the server and your friends just disconnected and you're starting to be bored, it might not seem like there are a lot of things going on... but there are. A developer attempting to recreate LW's from scratch would be faced with all of them. You might think, oh, LW's is easy, let's just make some gangs and some banking and we're done, shouldn't be too hard, right? But no, then you remember the races, and the hunting, and the admin system, and the anti-hacking measures, and the dueling, and the vehicle set, and the IRC echo... Generally these features are not hard to implement individually, but when you consider all of them together the list becomes very intimidating.

It is not at all surprising to me that LW 3.0 was lacking in features, considering the above. Rewriting LW's from scratch would be an enormous undertaking. That's not to say it can't be done, but I estimate it would take me several months to do it, up to half a year, while working on nothing else significant. That's a huge amount of time for a project that that doesn't, and will never, pay. I'm sure the 3.0 developers tried their best to reimplement the most important of LW's features, but there are just so many that even that seemed bare-bones.

Now add to the sheer volume of code the fact that all of the code is built on a system, GTA:SA, that was never designed for it, and the task becomes even harder. You can take something that seems like a good idea, for example keeping track of the cash on the server side, but then the system makes it impossible because it turns out that clients can do so many things (gambling, pay-n-spray) that are not synced with the server.

So, with that in mind, instead of getting rid of the current codebase and starting over, my strategy since I've been developing LW's has been to try to find relatively easy-to-implement features and changes that nevertheless have the potential to make a difference to gameplay---in other words, changes that seem to have a high payoff to work ratio. The hunting system, the events, and now the persistent gangs that I'm working on are all examples of additions that seemed that way to me when I was making them. While the current codebase may not be perfect, I do my best to work with it, because rewriting it is not feasible at this point.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2014, 09:23:15 AM by Chainer »

Offline Quickplay

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Re: LW_LVDM 3.0.0 HAS BEEN RELEASED!
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2014, 12:46:43 PM »
While the current codebase may not be perfect, I do my best to work with it, because rewriting it is not feasible at this point.
Thank you for that mate \m/

Offline [R]Qwerbeet_rulstler

Re: LW_LVDM 3.0.0 HAS BEEN RELEASED!
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2014, 12:04:00 AM »
I was inactive for the entire 3.0 development/release/trial, so I can't comment directly on what went on there. But I want to give a perspective on LW's codebase.

I just did a quick line count of LW's code, and it came out to just over 50,000 lines. When you're on the server and your friends just disconnected and you're starting to be bored, it might not seem like there are a lot of things going on... but there are. A developer attempting to recreate LW's from scratch would be faced with all of them. You might think, oh, LW's is easy, let's just make some gangs and some banking and we're done, shouldn't be too hard, right? But no, then you remember the races, and the hunting, and the admin system, and the anti-hacking measures, and the dueling, and the vehicle set, and the IRC echo... Generally these features are not hard to implement individually, but when you consider all of them together the list becomes very intimidating.

It is not at all surprising to me that LW 3.0 was lacking in features, considering the above. Rewriting LW's from scratch would be an enormous undertaking. That's not to say it can't be done, but I estimate it would take me several months to do it, up to half a year, while working on nothing else significant. That's a huge amount of time for a project that that doesn't, and will never, pay. I'm sure the 3.0 developers tried their best to reimplement the most important of LW's features, but there are just so many that even that seemed bare-bones.

Now add to the sheer volume of code the fact that all of the code is built on a system, GTA:SA, that was never designed for it, and the task becomes even harder. You can take something that seems like a good idea, for example keeping track of the cash on the server side, but then the system makes it impossible because it turns out that clients can do so many things (gambling, pay-n-spray) that are not synced with the server.

So, with that in mind, instead of getting rid of the current codebase and starting over, my strategy since I've been developing LW's has been to try to find relatively easy-to-implement features and changes that nevertheless have the potential to make a difference to gameplay---in other words, changes that seem to have a high payoff to work ratio. The hunting system, the events, and now the persistent gangs that I'm working on are all examples of additions that seemed that way to me when I was making them. While the current codebase may not be perfect, I do my best to work with it, because rewriting it is not feasible at this point.

Thank you.  :)

Offline Simon

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Re: LW_LVDM 3.0.0 HAS BEEN RELEASED!
« Reply #34 on: October 19, 2014, 02:58:08 AM »
I was inactive for the entire 3.0 development/release/trial, so I can't comment directly on what went on there. But I want to give a perspective on LW's codebase.

I just did a quick line count of LW's code, and it came out to just over 50,000 lines. When you're on the server and your friends just disconnected and you're starting to be bored, it might not seem like there are a lot of things going on... but there are. A developer attempting to recreate LW's from scratch would be faced with all of them. You might think, oh, LW's is easy, let's just make some gangs and some banking and we're done, shouldn't be too hard, right? But no, then you remember the races, and the hunting, and the admin system, and the anti-hacking measures, and the dueling, and the vehicle set, and the IRC echo... Generally these features are not hard to implement individually, but when you consider all of them together the list becomes very intimidating.

It is not at all surprising to me that LW 3.0 was lacking in features, considering the above. Rewriting LW's from scratch would be an enormous undertaking. That's not to say it can't be done, but I estimate it would take me several months to do it, up to half a year, while working on nothing else significant. That's a huge amount of time for a project that that doesn't, and will never, pay. I'm sure the 3.0 developers tried their best to reimplement the most important of LW's features, but there are just so many that even that seemed bare-bones.

Now add to the sheer volume of code the fact that all of the code is built on a system, GTA:SA, that was never designed for it, and the task becomes even harder. You can take something that seems like a good idea, for example keeping track of the cash on the server side, but then the system makes it impossible because it turns out that clients can do so many things (gambling, pay-n-spray) that are not synced with the server.

So, with that in mind, instead of getting rid of the current codebase and starting over, my strategy since I've been developing LW's has been to try to find relatively easy-to-implement features and changes that nevertheless have the potential to make a difference to gameplay---in other words, changes that seem to have a high payoff to work ratio. The hunting system, the events, and now the persistent gangs that I'm working on are all examples of additions that seemed that way to me when I was making them. While the current codebase may not be perfect, I do my best to work with it, because rewriting it is not feasible at this point.

A very pragmatic approach. I could never recommend rewriting littlewhitey's server now after seeing rewrites ultimately fail again and again. It's good to see you on the developer team Chainer!
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 03:01:27 AM by Simon »

Offline Chainer

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Re: LW_LVDM 3.0.0 HAS BEEN RELEASED!
« Reply #35 on: October 19, 2014, 08:14:28 PM »
Thanks for all the "thanks"!

Offline Runey

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Re: LW_LVDM 3.0.0 HAS BEEN RELEASED!
« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2014, 10:40:03 PM »
I have to admit that im surprised with your work.  ;) Good luck Chainer,you will need it.

Offline AJP

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Re: LW_LVDM 3.0.0 HAS BEEN RELEASED!
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2014, 02:31:09 AM »
While the current codebase may not be perfect, I do my best to work with it, because rewriting it is not feasible at this point.
If someone had told me that years ago I would not have believed it. It's cool to see old names coming back and making an impact on this community.

Offline Devilboy665

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Re: LW_LVDM 3.0.0 HAS BEEN RELEASED!
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2014, 03:21:43 AM »
If someone had told me that years ago I would not have believed it. It's cool to see old names coming back and making an impact on this community.
I'll impact you later.

Yet he has decided to reply normally.


Offline Quickplay

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Re: LW_LVDM 3.0.0 HAS BEEN RELEASED!
« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2014, 10:59:43 AM »
While the current codebase may not be perfect, I do my best to work with it, because rewriting it is not feasible at this point.
If someone had told me that years ago I would not have believed it. It's cool to see old names coming back and making an impact on this community.
:o :o :o ScottE! sup man? i thought you didn't visit the forums anymore.
There are fresh news about the server updates if you read around...and this time it's true!

If someone had told me that years ago I would not have believed it. It's cool to see old names coming back and making an impact on this community.
I'll impact you later.
wtf you summon each others xD

Offline Runey

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Re: LW_LVDM 3.0.0 HAS BEEN RELEASED!
« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2014, 01:06:59 PM »
While the current codebase may not be perfect, I do my best to work with it, because rewriting it is not feasible at this point.
If someone had told me that years ago I would not have believed it. It's cool to see old names coming back and making an impact on this community.
:o :o :o ScottE! sup man? i thought you didn't visit the forums anymore.
There are fresh news about the server updates if you read around...and this time it's true!

If someone had told me that years ago I would not have believed it. It's cool to see old names coming back and making an impact on this community.
I'll impact you later.
wtf you summon each others xD
Welcome back Scott! Good to see you're still around,and yeah,LW's is being updated lately,lots of new features,coming up every day(almost x) ).Big thanks to our staff and development team! :D
I'll impact you 2 later.

Offline Fuse

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Re: LW_LVDM 3.0.0 HAS BEEN RELEASED!
« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2014, 03:03:08 PM »

Offline iDamn

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Re: LW_LVDM 3.0.0 HAS BEEN RELEASED!
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2014, 07:07:05 PM »
first Scotte, then Jester,..

now me. damn, it is complete.  8)

stay on topic :p

Offline EnzoMortelli

Re: LW_LVDM 3.0.0 HAS BEEN RELEASED!
« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2014, 07:42:46 PM »
topic seems deprecated though idamn.