Neverending discussion about the old gamemode (no bank status saving and stuff)

[[JOKER]Miczi]

OK, I don't want to spam the sug topic again but that discussion will rise up again and again, so let this be the good topic for this.

Feel free to post here what do you thing about the current game mode, the old gamemode and what gamemode would be the best in your opinion.

I don't think that we will harm anyone by continuing it here, so:

Yeah Scott I DID understand what Miczi says (and he had already said this same thing other times before).

A regular wont always have guns if he has no money in the bank to purchase them straight away. He'll have to earn them by getting cash. That's how there would be balance between newbies and regulars.

I know that, but that also affects the newbies, and as I said for a newbie it's better to have good weapons (even if regulars have them too) than everyone with only deagle. You say that there's balance between newbies and regulars if they all have deagle, but there's also balance if they all have good weapons.

Removing the banks saving is good ONLY IF access to money and weapons is easy: good default weapons, car exports, autohosted races and other ways to earn money easily. I don't want to imagine how terrible the old LW had to be when bank didn't save your money and there weren't good default weapons, nor car exports, nor autohosted races. Many old players say those were good times but that had to be due to only the high number of players in that moment (and no, the high number of players wasn't because of that gamemode but due to other reasons).

Well, you forget about one thing. It's not only that regulars fight newbies, and newbies fight regulars. Newbies also fight each other and for them it's much more fun than getting raped with skilled regulars, nvm which weapons they are using.

You say that it's better for them to fight with all weapons than with only deagles. Well, you are right, it's better, as long as the other weapons are something special and worth working for. What is more, for someone new in sa-mp it's easier to start playing with deagle (especially when cbug was not allowed but even with it) and care only about aiming and getting familiar with the unusual sa-mp hitbox instead of learning also how to switch, how to run in different patterns etc. etc.

However I agree that the access to money should not be as hard as it was before, but as you have already said it is ok now, with exporting cars, challenges and stuff. And you are wrong, the high number of players was caused also
(if not mainly) by the gamemode. LW wasn't the only official server, but it was the most crowded official server for a long, long time. It was the time, when most of newbies was becoming regulars.

[Gryphus_One]

Well if someone doesn't know what all this is about, it started here: http://forum.littlewhiteys.co.uk/index.php/topic,13121.60.html

It's curious that you open a new thread here, because I was also thinking of making another...

Well, you forget about one thing. It's not only that regulars fight newbies, and newbies fight regulars. Newbies also fight each other and for them it's much more fun than getting raped with skilled regulars, nvm which weapons they are using.

Yeah of course, I agree with that: it's no fun to be always slaughtered by regulars. But making it difficult to access the weapons doesn't solve the problem, it can even make it worse.

You say that it's better for them to fight with all weapons than with only deagles. Well, you are right, it's better, as long as the other weapons are something special and worth working for.

Of course not!!! why??
What I said is: for newbies it's better to have good weapons... EASILY!!! But what are you saying, that the good weapons should be hard to get?? No way!!!

What is more, for someone new in sa-mp it's easier to start playing with deagle (especially when cbug was not allowed but even with it) and care only about aiming and getting familiar with the unusual sa-mp hitbox instead of learning also how to switch, how to run in different patterns etc. etc.

As long as your enemy is using deagle too, because if he starts to run around you... forget about hitting him with deagle... Also, using deagle makes yourself an easier target since it's a walking weapon and not a running one.
If someone has to use a walking weapon, at least be it a MP5...
.

[AJP]

Gryphus saying you have more chance against running weapons with an mp5 than with a deagle just shows u don't know how to use it :x MP5 = more db'ers

[Gryphus_One]

Gryphus saying you have more chance against running weapons with an mp5 than with a deagle just shows u don't know how to use it

Scott what I say is totally logical: deagle's fire rate is shitty, so if you miss your shot (and you will, specially if there's much lag) you have to wait to shoot the next bullet. However MP5 has a higher fire rate and you have more chances of at least one of the bullets hitting your target. Deagle's only good thing is that if it hits, it makes much damage.

And about what you say of "you don't know how to use it", then that's the problem: the weapon requiring it's user to know how to use it. So then how can it be easier for a newbie, as Miczi says?

[[JOKER]Miczi]

Gryphus saying you have more chance against running weapons with an mp5 than with a deagle just shows u don't know how to use it :x MP5 = more db'ers

Of course deagle is better. MP5 has a big firerate, but it does shitty dmg, and you can't run with this. It's much easier to hit 5 times with deagle, than shooting 20 bullets (im guessing, I don't use MP5) to kill with MP5.

Gruphus, you still don't get what Im talking about. Of course that deagle has a small chance with running weps, especially if we talk about newbies. Hmm how to make it clear... When me (a regular) fights with a newbie and we both have rw, he will be dead unless he is a big big lagger or he was born in sa-mp (I don't know such ppl). If Im fighting with a newbie and we both use deagles without cbug, he has a little bit bigger chance of wining and a much much bigger chance of running.

Weapons should be easy to get? Then LW will look like a normal dm server (/m4 to get m4 ) and money would be useless (even more useless than it is now). Of course Im not saying that they should cost a lot or something, the current prices are okay, but I don't like giving them for free, even in small ammounts.

Every server has goals for ppl to get. On most of them this goals is to get more frags. On LW's it used to be a stable, big income of money. Now it's just money (getting it once) and stats (which are bad, because it makes ppl kill just to get a frag).

[Devilboy665]

ummm...lol!
Simply login with ur new superhardcore nickname and dont register it and play with deagle only...dont swith,dont bank...just go around and end up dead...than do /q and never go back on LW!

Welcome Nubz! 

[robbynab]

Easy is automatically boring after some days, so I agree with Miczi, make weapons hard to get.

[Gryphus_One]

When me (a regular) fights with a newbie and we both have rw, he will be dead unless he is a big big lagger or he was born in sa-mp (I don't know such ppl). If Im fighting with a newbie and we both use deagles without cbug, he has a little bit bigger chance of wining and a much much bigger chance of running.

Maybe you are right in that a newbie has more chances against a regular if it's fought deagle vs deagle than rw vs rw, but the newbie still has an almost guaranteed death.

Well Miczi I will say it shortly: it doesn't matter really much what weapons regulars have, if the newbie is condemned to have only deagle, he cannot db (but however he can be dbed by others) and therefore he cannot kill, so all he can do is what you said: run, run and run. However, if weapons are easy to get he can db, and although others can db him too, it will be only other newbies who will do it, so easy weapons are an advantage for newbies.
And now that I talk about db, there's something more: if regulars care about money and not about stats, as soon as they get a dbing weapon they will start dbing because they won't mind having their stats ruined. However, if money is easy and regulars care about stats, even with it not being a good situation either, they will do many lame things (like camping at LVPD or ganging 4 vs 1), but at least they won't db and it will be only the newbies who will do it, and newbies dbing vs regulars on foot results in a more balanced game.

[[JOKER]Miczi]

Gryphus, what you want is a server that will not require skills. We can try as hard as we can, but a newbie will still get raped in a fight with regular. Not only in samp. In every game. Ok, maybe except rock, paper and scissors.

Is it really what you want? A game, in which it doesn't matter that you are better than your opponent? Imagine a situation when I challenge you for an air battle. Of course you are a good rustler pilot, it wouln't be fair... So maybe I should take Hydra?

Maybe some regulars will db. But most of them would avoid it, cause it would be shameful for him and his eventual clan. However, if they will see a guy with 1 mill in his pocket, they will db him. But here I don't see any difference between now and then - even now, when I see a very rich guy, or a guy with a huge bounty, I don't see anything wrong in dbing him. The only difference is that after that I don't say "owned" or even "gf", Im just happy that I have the money.

And running. Well, everyone sometimes has to run. Even regulars. And for me it's not that harmful - when I run from someone with a huge bounty or a mill in my pocket, I feel a giant satisfaction. It happens rarely now. It was a frequent feeling when I was a newbie camping on a ship as long as I could, untill someone attacked me and I had to get to the bank with the cash.

You should notice one thing. It's not that you are always a newbie. It's not that you are always a runner without weps. Roles are changing. Firstly you are getting cash and avoid getting killed by ppl with weapons. Then you take the cash, buy weapons, and look for other runners with cash... Maybe here is the element that made LW unusual those days. It wasn't all the same, everyday, every hour the same. If you worked hard, you could get on the top.

Now, what's the fun when everyone is on the top?


@ Devilboy: You are such a joker

[Devilboy665]

@ Devilboy: You are such a joker

  sry...Im already in a clan! 

[Gryphus_One]

Gryphus, what you want is a server that will not require skills.

Yeah that's it!!!!
Because EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO ENJOY THE GAME, and not only the super hardcore pro gamers.

We can try as hard as we can, but a newbie will still get raped in a fight with regular. Not only in samp. In every game. Ok, maybe except rock, paper and scissors.

Not in all games: for example one of my neighbours has a Wii with Mario Kart, and I have played it online (races and battles, both things) and even when I was totally new to that game I had some chances to win or to be second or third. And Mario Kart Wii online can be many things, but NOT a fair game.

Is it really what you want? A game, in which it doesn't matter that you are better than your opponent?

Well, one thing is to be better than your opponent, and a very different one is to be always raping him only because of that fact.

Imagine a situation when I challenge you for an air battle. Of course you are a good rustler pilot, it wouln't be fair... So maybe I should take Hydra?

Yes, of course!!! I don't know if I would destroy your Hydra, but I know that I would have a nice time avoiding all your missiles...
Well, maybe Hydra vs Rustler would be too unbalanced, but what about you with a new Rustler, and me with a slighty damaged one? that might be interesting.

Maybe some regulars will db. But most of them would avoid it, cause it would be shameful for him and his eventual clan. However, if they will see a guy with 1 mill in his pocket, they will db him. But here I don't see any difference between now and then - even now, when I see a very rich guy, or a guy with a huge bounty, I don't see anything wrong in dbing him. The only difference is that after that I don't say "owned" or even "gf", Im just happy that I have the money.

Yes, but my point is: if regulars care about money, they will db the rich players without caring about their stats. However, if everyone is rich and regulars care about stats, they won't db and only newbies will do it (since newbies don't care about stats). So my point is that easy money and stats caring prevent regulars from dbing, leaving only the newbies doing it, which results in a more balanced game.

And running. Well, everyone sometimes has to run. Even regulars. And for me it's not that harmful - when I run from someone with a huge bounty or a mill in my pocket, I feel a giant satisfaction. It happens rarely now. It was a frequent feeling when I was a newbie camping on a ship as long as I could, untill someone attacked me and I had to get to the bank with the cash.

Yeah, there's nothing wrong in running, but what I don't want is newbies being forced to be running all the time just because they cannot defend themselves.

[[JOKER]Miczi]

Gryphus, what you want is a server that will not require skills.

Yeah that's it!!!!
Because EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO ENJOY THE GAME, and not only the super hardcore pro gamers.

Listen to yourself! Of course everyone have the right to enjoy the game! Also everyone has the right to be rich as fuck in real life! So why I'm not? Cause of one simple reason. I NEED TO WORK FOR IT! Firstly I have to finish school and
(optionally) university. Then I have to be fuckin creative and hard working to get my destination! And then you know what? Then I will pay those ppl, who have just finished their school for doing for me things that I don't like doing! They will have to work hard to get to the top! But it doesn't mean that it's not fair, as long as everyone has a fair start (which is not always in real life, but for sure is on Littlewhitey's).
The country will not give me 5000000$ to make me equal with Bill Gates. If it will give me that money, it will have to give that money to everyone else, cause it's a fair start. Effect: noone needs money, it looses it's value and everyone is poor again.

And same goes with LW, this is what we see now. We all have shitloads of money, so we don't need more of it. We need stats. We kill the easiest targets to get those - which are newbies.

If we need money, we would also use the fastest way to get it, which would be killing the richest players and trying to not loose the money.

Two weeks ago Ive recieved an email that I've got to the final of a big literary competition. You know how great feeling it is? Very very great. Because there were over 600 participants and only 20 got to the final. And I was working hard for 4 years now to get to such a high level in writing! In the beginning I was publishing my texts on a blog or forum, some people have really enjoyed it. But shit, they were saying the same about other blogs! That had no point. It wasn't that satisfying. I have to raise the bar. I was a newbie, I was working hard and now Im good, that's something.
And same goes with SA-MP.

I hope you get my point. If you don't, then we have nothing more to discuss about, I can't explain it more clearly. You are just a minority, who expects from LW's something, that noone else does. No competition.

[Gryphus_One]

Because EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO ENJOY THE GAME, and not only the super hardcore pro gamers.

What makes u think they enjoy it right now?

I have been enjoying the server lately much more than before. And well, maybe I don't represent all newbies in Samp (for example, I admit that not all of them are as interested in Rustlers as me), but we all KNOW, BY PURE LOGIC, that no newbie enjoys to be always raped over and over again, that's for sure!!! And I can tell you that the current LW gamemode, compared with the one I found when I joined this server at January or February, just... is infinitely better!!! when I joined LW at the beginning of this year, there were no good default weapons nor car exports, so I had absolutely no way to get good weapons, that's why at first the only thing I did was chasing racers with Rustlers. When I was on the ground, I had to be always running, running and running, because I had absolutely no chance!!!! However now it's completely different, and thanks to the good default weapons and the car exports, I can have some fun on the ground too, and not only in the skies.

But not only that: you say that now, money is useless because is easy to get. Well, if the banks don't save the money, it can be useless in certain situations too: if I get some money but I know that I will have to leave the game in 5 minutes (or if simply I'm flying Rustlers or any other thing), that money is useless to me because I will lose it when leaving the game, and it's not worth to buy weapons for only 5 minutes. However, if I can save it, I will be able to enjoy it and buy weapons the next time I join the game.

the WII is for entertainment purposes. The games arent calibrated like games u play on PC or PS3.

Well, it's true that generally speaking, Nintendo Wii is for noobs and casuals, but I can tell you that in Mario Kart there are many pros too (my neighbour is one of them).

Lmao rustler fights will never become a big main issue/event on LWs i can tell u that much

Yeah and that's one of the reasons why this server needs to improve, but who said that they will be a main part? Miczi just used them as an example, and I just followed that example.

And newbies not caring for stats dude can u crawl inside their minds? You dont know every newbie that joins LW gryphus so stop pulling that bullshit out of ur ass already.

Ptffff clearly you don't use the logic for anything... but how the fuck will a newbie care about his stats, if he is learning and he assumes that he will be killed lots of times and kill only a few ones?
One starts caring about his stats when he thinks he is becoming a good player. For example, here in LW I have never cared about my stats because I know I suck at this, but in another server I'm a good player and there I DO care about my stats.

Yea like thats gonna be fair leaving the newbies to be allowed to db and the regulars cant. If you want balance remove the money saving system and spawn weapons.

Is this a joke? how will the game be balanced if you remove the good default weapons? how will newbies be able to db then?
And I wasn't talking about allowing newbies to db while regulars can't, but about making db not interesting for regulars (because of the stats caring).

Its basicly pathetic that here at LW people even think about putting newbies first while they might just join for a one of. And regulars that have been loyal and commin for months or even years.

Well, maybe we shouldn't forget about the loyal regulars, but all servers need new players too, because regulars won't be playing in the server forever, sooner or later they will leave the server, so it needs new players to replace them.

what I don't want is newbies being forced to be running all the time just because they cannot defend themselves.

They are never forced to run in the first place. They have choices all the time either stand and fight and possibly survive

Ohh yeah, when you are new and you have only deagle while your enemies are skilled and have good weapons, of course you can stand, fight and possibly survive, sure sure...

And btw newbies can defend themselves you all cried about giving everyone spawn weapons. And now u even want more? what the fuck is up with that stop crying about it they got their weapons so they can defend themselves.

When talking about newbies not having chances to defend themselves, I was referring to the old times with only deagle. Of course that the good default weapons have increased newbies' chances, although the stats maniacs and the gangs X vs 1 are still a problem.

Listen to yourself! Of course everyone have the right to enjoy the game! Also everyone has the right to be rich as fuck in real life! So why I'm not? Cause of one simple reason. I NEED TO WORK FOR IT! Firstly I have to finish school and
(optionally) university. Then I have to be fuckin creative and hard working to get my destination! And then you know what? Then I will pay those ppl, who have just finished their school for doing for me things that I don't like doing! They will have to work hard to get to the top! But it doesn't mean that it's not fair, as long as everyone has a fair start (which is not always in real life, but for sure is on Littlewhitey's).

Ohh yeah, so as real life is hard, games have to be hard too??
It's exactly the opposite!!! real life is already too hard, so games should be easy!!! because when someone comes to home and starts playing, he wanna enjoy and relax!!! if we make games hard, then what easy things are left in our lifes?? almost nothing!!
In real life you wouldn't be carrying two uzis and two sawnoffs, so stop comparing the server with real life.

Another thing: if real life is hard, it's because there are some things that cannot be made easier (or making them easier would require very deep changes), not because anyone is purposedly making them hard because he thinks they are better that way. However, in a game one has much more freedom to script, make rules and change lots of things. And now that you are comparing the difficulty of the game with real life, I also said this in another post: of course LW got easier, that's the progress in everything!!! calculators make maths easier, computers make all the administrative and office works much easier, digital cameras make it easier to take and edit hundreds of photos, modern medical equipment make things easier for doctors and patients, agricultural machinery make the farmer's work easier, etc. When something is very difficult, you are less productive because you have to focus all your efforts in only that specific task, whereas if things are easier you can be more productive because you can spread your efforts in other things at the same time.

The country will not give me 5000000$ to make me equal with Bill Gates. If it will give me that money, it will have to give that money to everyone else, cause it's a fair start. Effect: noone needs money, it looses it's value and everyone is poor again.

Again the example is invalid: a country cannot give money to everyone because that would make prices go up and, as you say, everyone would be poor, but in the game you can give lots of money to everyone without raising the prices.

And Miczi, two things more: when you were a newbie, Samp was still quite new so most of your rivals were newbies too, therefore you don't know how it's like to be a newbie while you have to play against players with whole years of experience.
And second: you say that with the old gamemode, regulars chased the rich players instead of newbies, to get money to buy better weapons but... what happened when someone had already all weapons with lots of ammo? he didn't need to chase rich players anymore (specially if he was about to leave the game in some minutes), so probably he would start caring about his stats, hunting newbies instead. And what are the chances of a newbie with only deagle against a regular with all weapons? Take one thing into account: it's true that with the old system, all players started in the same conditions, but not all players started playing at the same time, so if someone had already been playing for 3 hours and then you started playing, he clearly had better weapons than you, no matter if he started with only deagle and 500$.

[robbynab]

Yea like thats gonna be fair leaving the newbies to be allowed to db and the regulars cant. If you want balance remove the money saving system and spawn weapons.

Is this a joke? how will the game be balanced if you remove the good default weapons? how will newbies be able to db then?
And I wasn't talking about allowing newbies to db while regulars can't, but about making db not interesting for regulars (because of the stats caring).

I can tell you, it was the whole fun making my way up, getting money and weapons and that's what all my friends said when they joined (around 10, 3 still playing).


I think Gryphus is some guy from LVP trying to get them our players.

[Gryphus_One]

Ohh by the way, I forgot about this:

When me (a regular) fights with a newbie and we both have rw, he will be dead unless he is a big big lagger or he was born in sa-mp (I don't know such ppl). If Im fighting with a newbie and we both use deagles without cbug, he has a little bit bigger chance of wining and a much much bigger chance of running.

I agree with this, but then this very same thing applyies to db too: not only if it's newbie dbing vs regular on foot, but even if they both are dbing (same conditions), as the aiming is automatic and players only have to move their vehicles, there's less room for the regular to take advantage of his higher skills.