Neverending discussion about the old gamemode (no bank status saving and stuff)

[AJP]

wtf @ this topic ._.


It's simple:

Problem: Script offers unbalance between regulars and newbies.
Solution: Remove certain things that give them such advantages.

- Remove permanent banks or lower them drastically.
- Lower special shop prices if ^^^^^^^^^ is removed.

That's it, don't have to complicate it so much -_________-

[mayhem]

wtf @ this topic ._.

Was about to say that.

[Simon]

wtf @ this topic ._.


It's simple:

Problem: Script offers unbalance between regulars and newbies.
Solution: Remove certain things that give them such advantages.

- Remove permanent banks or lower them drastically.
- Lower special shop prices if ^^^^^^^^^ is removed.

That's it, don't have to complicate it so much -_________-

That's not the only solution. I don't want to see permanent banks removed -- that's part of the build up process.

The single most valuable part of the gamemode is weapons, therefore I think changes in the weapon system are in order. I want to see either:

(a) The rate of money increases decreased and spread about. I do not see this as helping the newbies though, this would increase the newbie challenge too much while regulars kept their money. This would also be the most difficult thing to do as there would be a lot of decisions about what earnings should be. Difficulty: Hard.

(b) Spawn weapons removed. This would mean regulars wouldn't be able to instantly 'spawn to pwn' everytime they died, this levels the playing field a bit more on each spawn and will decrease $ when people buy weapons this would cause a more tactical, conservative server. Difficulty: Easy.

(c) Spawn weapons charged for at each spawn, their prices would be decreased to normal weapon price. This would have the same points as (b) however there would still be convenience and regulars could still 'spawn to pwn', but this spawn to pwn would happen less regularly than now. Difficulty: Medium.

I think that for (b) and (c) the removal of the free spawn weapons should be considered. My favourite out of the lot would be (c). It'd effectively be the weapon packs suggested a while ago, I see multiple expansion paths with this option:

(a) Ammunation booths in certain places. You would be able to purchase your weapon pack without going to ammunation, however you'd be limited to buying only your weapon pack and a surcharge would be applied for the convenience. You can go to Ammunation to pay for the weapon pack at normal price.

(b) Players drop their weapons. When players die they will lose more than $, they will lose their weapons into nothingness. So why not drop the weapons for players to grab. It would allow a new player to reap more of a reward when they kill a regular player.

(c) Weapon trading. This system couldn't be abused by respawning. You would now be able to give weapons off to players/friends who may have run out of ammo.

(d) Weapon Mini-Missions. Depending on how difficult it becomes to gain weapons, the need for a weapons mini-mission system may arise. We could consider mini-mission systems ran by Ammunation to help people gain weapons, get weapon discounts.

An example could be an explosives transporting mission where you transport explosives from a to b, however the catch would be that because of the explosives you'd have a vehicle that's prone to exploding very easily.

I also want to see the following change:

Give Cash command limited to distance. This is so people cannot give their cash to friends just before they die. A 'wire' command may be added to the banks to aid with long distance transfers from bank account to bank account.

I think the correct mix of these suggestions will make the gamemode challenging yet balanced enough for the challenges to be worth it.

[Gryphus_One]

Ohh another thing: Miczi, you always say that the old system was more balanced because everyone started with only deagle and 500$ and you were forced to build your way up, but that does nothing but give an advantage to regulars: imagine that two players start to play at the same time, and one of them is newbie and the other is regular. As the regular is more skilled, he can kill more players with deagle, therefore he gets more money, and buys better weapons. The newbie, by the contrary, cannot kill almost anyone (well, maybe he kills other newbies, but they are poor), so the newbie will hardly have enough money to buy many weapons.
So if a regular, apart from being more skilled, besides he has better weapons, how can that be balanced?? it's like the Formula One some years ago when Schumacher was in Ferrari: in that moment, it was the best driver having the best car, so what were the chances of his rivals? none, so Schummy was always winning and F1 got boring.
Good default weapons don't avoid the skills difference between regulars and newbies, but at least they all have similar weapons, so they balance the game.

(b) Spawn weapons removed. This would mean regulars wouldn't be able to instantly 'spawn to pwn' everytime they died, this levels the playing field a bit more on each spawn and will decrease $ when people buy weapons this would cause a more tactical, conservative server. Difficulty: Easy.

Lol? easy for regulars, right? and about "this would mean regulars wouldn't be able to instantly 'spawn to pwn' everytime they died", you should change it for "this would mean newbies wouldn't be able to instantly have good weapons to defend themselves".

(c) Spawn weapons charged for at each spawn, their prices would be decreased to normal weapon price.

This would unbalance the game terribly more, since newbies die much more often than regulars, and they are also poorer, so on top of that they would have to pay more, which is making the poors poorer.

(b) Players drop their weapons. When players die they will lose more than $, they will lose their weapons into nothingness. So why not drop the weapons for players to grab. It would allow a new player to reap more of a reward when they kill a regular player.

Same as in the previous point. Lol, it's quite ironic to say "it would allow a new player to reap more of a reward when they kill a regular player", when do newbies kill regulars?? this implementation would allow the stats maniacs and the gangs 4 vs 1 (those who are always raping newbies) to not only make newbies run out of money and life, but also out of weapons!!!

[Simon]

(b) Spawn weapons removed. This would mean regulars wouldn't be able to instantly 'spawn to pwn' everytime they died, this levels the playing field a bit more on each spawn and will decrease $ when people buy weapons this would cause a more tactical, conservative server. Difficulty: Easy.

Lol? easy for regulars, right? and about "this would mean regulars wouldn't be able to instantly 'spawn to pwn' everytime they died", you should change it for "this would mean newbies wouldn't be able to instantly have good weapons to defend themselves".

It'd mean more deagle vs. deagle, rather than regular's elite weapons vs. newbies spawn weapons.

(c) Spawn weapons charged for at each spawn, their prices would be decreased to normal weapon price.

This would unbalance the game terribly more, since newbies die much more often than regulars, and they are also poorer, so on top of that they would have to pay more, which is making the poors poorer.

You can't get any poorer than $0 with this system! So a newbie with $500 will still buy what they can afford which is normal. The long term effects are what matters, this is an attempt at bringing down the high end people and letting weapons be as important as they are.

Currently, when you get to a certain amount of cash in the server you're stuck in an endless rich loop, you have enough money to cover your spawn weapons for each death you make. You can make as many risks as you want as a rich player since you have purchased infinite ammo and won't lose that when you die.

Not only that but free spawn weapons is limiting the expansion that can be brought to the weapon system due to possible abuse.

(b) Players drop their weapons. When players die they will lose more than $, they will lose their weapons into nothingness. So why not drop the weapons for players to grab. It would allow a new player to reap more of a reward when they kill a regular player.

Same as in the previous point. Lol, it's quite ironic to say "it would allow a new player to reap more of a reward when they kill a regular player", when do newbies kill regulars?? this implementation would allow the stats maniacs and the gangs 4 vs 1 (those who are always raping newbies) to not only make newbies run out of money and life, but also out of weapons!!!

You're assuming newbies are dumbasses with no chance to kill anyone. It's entirely possible for a newbie to kill a regular. The regulars die to other regulars, the newbies are not the only ones losing stuff.

[robbynab]

Ohh another thing: Miczi, you always say that the old system was more balanced because everyone started with only deagle and 500$ and you were forced to build your way up, but that does nothing but give an advantage to regulars: imagine that two players start to play at the same time, and one of them is newbie and the other is regular. As the regular is more skilled, he can kill more players with deagle, therefore he gets more money, and buys better weapons. The newbie, by the contrary, cannot kill almost anyone (well, maybe he kills other newbies, but they are poor), so the newbie will hardly have enough money to buy many weapons.

And still we used to have >100 players in those days, didn't we?

[Gryphus_One]

It'd mean more deagle vs. deagle, rather than regular's elite weapons vs. newbies spawn weapons.

Again? man, I told you all: everyone having deagle is shit!!! and for many reasons, besides.
Also if a new player, after having already tryied other servers, he comes here and sees everyone using deagles and the good weapons being something exceptional, he will think "what a crappy server!!!".

You can't get any poorer than $0 with this system! So a newbie with $500 will still buy what they can afford which is normal.

Ohh yeah, and what weapons can you buy with 500 dollars? I think a single tec9 costs 360$ and with a very ridiculous ammo.
Seriously man, I just can't believe this!! but how can you be suggesting the idea of losing all your weapons when dying?? if you finally managed to buy a big amount of weapons with lots of ammo, and you lost them all every single time you die, that would really be the biggest shit that could happen in a server!! What would the point of buing weapons be then? why would I buy weapons if I knew that I would lose them all when dying?

The long term effects are what matters, this is an attempt at bringing down the high end people and letting weapons be as important as they are.

I don't understand what you mean with this.

Currently, when you get to a certain amount of cash in the server you're stuck in an endless rich loop, you have enough money to cover your spawn weapons for each death you make. You can make as many risks as you want as a rich player since you have purchased infinite ammo and won't lose that when you die.

Yeah but regulars still care about not dying because they care about their stats. Besides, you talk about taking risks... well, is that bad in a game? isn't it better if you are willing to risk your life, instead of hiding in a bank affraid of dying, because you know that you will lose all your weapons? This would do nothing but increase the amount of /q to avoid death (and with a very good reason, besides).

Not only that but free spawn weapons is limiting the expansion that can be brought to the weapon system due to possible abuse.

What do you mean with this? expansion brought to the weapon system? possible abuse?

You're assuming newbies are dumbasses with no chance to kill anyone. It's entirely possible for a newbie to kill a regular.

Yeah, with db, something impossible if you have only deagle.

The regulars die to other regulars, the newbies are not the only ones losing stuff.

No but clearly the newbies die much more often.

And still we used to have >100 players in those days, didn't we?

Well, bring that old system to now, and we will see how many players we have...

[robbynab]

Well, bring that old system to now, and we will see how many players we have...

As many as now or more, I bet.

[Gryphus_One]

Well, bring that old system to now, and we will see how many players we have...

As many as now or more, I bet.

Well, depends on the regulars, because if we talk about newbies...
I already said it, but I will say it again: I'm a newbie, and I can tell you, that the current gamemode is infinitely better than the one there was at the beginning of this year!!!! I don't know why we all are discussing so many things here, when the fact is as simple as that.

[robbynab]

Well, bring that old system to now, and we will see how many players we have...

As many as now or more, I bet.

Well, depends on the regulars, because if we talk about newbies...
I already said it, but I will say it again: I'm a newbie, and I can tell you, that the current gamemode is infinitely better than the one there was at the beginning of this year!!!! I don't know why we all are discussing so many things here, when the fact is as simple as that.

Can you get that you're not every newbie? As several other regulars including me said, it was epic fun making his way up, simple as that.

[Gryphus_One]

Can you get that you're not every newbie?

Well maybe no, but as I said before, there are things that are common for me and for all newbies, like for example that no newbie likes to be always killed without having a chance to kill, that's for sure!!

As several other regulars including me said, it was epic fun making his way up, simple as that.

Maybe it was fun for regulars, but not for newbies. And as I said before, all servers need new players because regulars won't be playing forever.

[robbynab]

As several other regulars including me said, it was epic fun making his way up, simple as that.

Maybe it was fun for regulars, but not for newbies. And as I said before, all servers need new players because regulars won't be playing forever.

For today's regulars, should mean that it was fun when they've/we've been newbies ourselves.

[Gryphus_One]

As several other regulars including me said, it was epic fun making his way up, simple as that.

Maybe it was fun for regulars, but not for newbies. And as I said before, all servers need new players because regulars won't be playing forever.

For today's regulars, should mean that it was fun when they've/we've been newbies ourselves.

Yeah but when you the old regulars were newbies, Samp was quite new and most of the other players were newbies too, you didn't have to play against players with whole years of experience when you were newbies. Therefore, attracting new players nowadays is different from doing it when the game was new.
.

[AJP]

Yeah but when you the old regulars were newbies, Samp was quite new and most of the other players were newbies too, you didn't have to play against players with whole years of experience when you were newbies. Therefore, attracting new players nowadays is different from doing it when the game was new.
.

That argument is valid for like the first month of sa-mp. Not for the first 3 or 4 years.

[robbynab]

Yeah but when you the old regulars were newbies, Samp was quite new and most of the other players were newbies too, you didn't have to play against players with whole years of experience when you were newbies. Therefore, attracting new players nowadays is different from doing it when the game was new.
.

I started back in December '08, can't tell me there've been no pros, I remember [V]s and [JOKER]s fighting for Pyra/NAM and tried to disturb them (with Deagle from far away just shooting), hell what a fun.