Don't be a negative player!

[[V]jOjO]

Hey all,
I wanted to post these words after having some common random situation on LW. I'll summarise these words in a few points. For those cool guys who'll start going "yea sure jOjO, you're being ....." I'd like to remind you (without any "showy" intensions) that I achieved whatever I wanted to achieve in that virtual world. Whatever I'll post here is for the server's good. Apart from being a part of the staff, I'm a player who had a long time on this server with it's ups and downs. You can discuss whatever point you want to discuss as long as it is a constructive, respectful, and not for "being cool" discussion. We're all cool, no need to prove it!


1- Respect = Players count.
During last 2 days, 5 [V]s or more (just as an example, search for more and I'm sure you'll find) prefered playing at another server over playing here and some will continue being regulars there. Why? becuase players "cry much". LW's script is way more advanced than that server, but the overall experience is what counts. I personally will start getting less active in-game if I see the hate continuing to happen, I'll just be on irc, and in-game when necessary (eg: reports, handling [V]), and I'll play at somewhere else with my clan mates for my personal fun. No I'm not crying, I'm playing this game in order to have fun! makes sense? That's how it works for many others.

2- "Strong" (which are usually negative 0o) opinions are welcomed, throught the proper channel.
Being negative and spamming negativity on the server or here does not add to your value. It increases the hate between you and staff members, and as human beings, staff members will start hunting for your mistakes and they'll be able to punish you within the guidelines and rules of LW, how evil! Just for example, check where is the place of the "tough guys" vs the respectful guys on LW. It makes a difference at everything, starting from dealing with reports till clan memberships or server ranks. If your ego monster can't handle such a "strong" complaint, you can send it directly to a management member, and he'll handle the situation and you'll save time and efforts which is directed to a wrong way in the first place.

3- Avoid the "spoiled staff" theory.
Qwerbeet thought that I'm abusing my rights because I muted the server, when 2-4 players were spamming the chat with "abuser, don't mix your rank with your personal stuff ... blablabla", I had to mute the server in order to mention that if you have a complain you can take it directly to LW's management, a 2 seconds mute saved a 20 mins drama. This concept applies at countless situations. Personally, I check whatever action I'm taking because I know that I'm responsible for this server, and players X,Y,Z will pm me asking for the reason of my action (and I'm sure that other staff members do the same). The point is that it's IMPOSSIBLE to reason each and every action to each and every player who asks me about it. Why? because I am not here to explain my actions, I'm here to take actions. Those who are responsible for reiewing my actions are management, not players. Players complain to management, management solves the problem. BINGO!

4- Rebelling against an action does not help.
If a player is wrong he'll get punished, even if 10 players support him, otherwise it's a free ticket for whoever wants to break rules. I'd like to mention that when you rebel against me for taking some action (muting player X for example), I don't give a flying cow. Why? I'm a guy who's sitting infront of his PC having some fun and punishing guys who seem to be evil, wow that's fun! Again, what helps is contacting management.

5- Understand who you're dealing with.
The fact that I (one of the staff members) do not reply on some trolls even after I mute them is not because I can't reply, it's because my personal ethics does not allow me to do so, these "ethics" that enabled me to achieve whatever I wanted in this virtual world, and many of what I want from real world. Yea I can troll with a guy just for the sakes of achieving victory! then become one of those guys who are placed in a trash discussions between staff members in private, or other players in general, and one of those guys who won't get whatever they want easily, simply because the priority goes to others who have a good reputation.


I hope I added something useful that you might remember before doing the next action on LW (not generalizing). Again, LW lost 5 or more players for 2 days, and those represent just 1 example of what I'm talking about. Want players (including staff members) to stay in-game for a longer time? give them good time, otherwise they'll look for another place which gives them more fun, makes sense!

Thanks for reading. <3

[SUPERBAD]

It is pretty sad to see you prefering to play on another server than lw`s. It is sad to see some admins playing a lot on other servers and not on lw`s.
sorry, I do not really get your point... I understand crying players can be annoying and many players can be annoying, I can be too...
Do not missunderstand me, but just to get sure your points in the fallowing are:

1Respect:
player cry much - makes other player leave


2- "Strong"
beein negative and spamming negativity? (what exactly do you mean) - it makes the stuff angry and they will look for you breaking rules and punish you (do not really understand ... it is pretty easy to fallow the rules (when I was admin the only thing which made me angry were regulars who thought they could break rules or admins who thought they can punish for things which are allowed)
and the staff wont take your reports too serious... (that should only happen when a player often gives wrong reports, just my opinion)
--> so if player feel like admins look too harsh at them or when their reports arent taken serious... they should contact management?

3- Avoid the "spoiled staff" theory.
you mean do not ask the staff for the reason of their action, if you want to complain about an admin`s action you should directly take it to the management?
(I know sometimes it can be annoying to explain your actions, for sure it was when we got over 150 players. But in most cases I, when i was active as admin, could explain short my actions to a player. for example if you mute the whole server: you could write: "attention: I need to announce you all..." most ppl would understand that you wanted to inform the whole server. When I punished someone and he asked me why, I tried to explain him short the rule he broke. It helps the player to not repeat the rule breaking + if player understand why you take action, they will respect you more as admin. We got strict rules and every player should have to fallow them. No matter if it is a player who is negative and beeing watched a lot or if it is a total admin friendly player.)

4- Rebelling against an action does not help.
(I fully understand this. You got to punish those who do not fallow the rules. You got to make players fallow the rules. And it should not help if ohters support the wrong, just cause they are their friends or they think he did more for the server than you did.)

5- Understand who you're dealing with.
if I understand you right... you do not want to discuss with trolls?!


you mention often players should contact the management, when they are not okay with an action of you or another admin. but what will happen to admins who punished for things which are allowed? what will happen to admins who kill by cmd just cause they did not like their action. what will happen to admins who ban players just to tell them they do like the player? and does the management really care?

(it is really sad to see this is already too long for a lot of ppl too read, I got the feeling a stupid 4 words slogan help more than some wise words...like me you expect too much)

[Simon]

If you guys have nothing to say then don't post at all. We don't need several posts quoting the same thing over again without adding anything extra.

[[V]jOjO]

Warning! TD;LR post! Don't read this because it's a response to SUPERBAD!

It is pretty sad to see you prefering to play on another server than lw`s. It is sad to see some admins playing a lot on other servers and not on lw`s.
sorry, I do not really get your point... I understand crying players can be annoying and many players can be annoying, I can be too...
Do not missunderstand me, but just to get sure your points in the fallowing are:

1Respect:
player cry much - makes other player leave

Exactly.

2- "Strong"
beein negative and spamming negativity? (what exactly do you mean) - it makes the stuff angry and they will look for you breaking rules and punish you (do not really understand ... it is pretty easy to fallow the rules (when I was admin the only thing which made me angry were regulars who thought they could break rules or admins who thought they can punish for things which are allowed)
and the staff wont take your reports too serious... (that should only happen when a player often gives wrong reports, just my opinion)

I don't "go easy" with any reports and I think I never saw it happening so far. Maybe I should rephrase it to something like "priority of dealing with multiple in-game and on forum reports at one time? D:". I know that these are rare and extreme cases, but I had to give some examples about how being nice to the staff, and how reporting complaints in the right way can make some good change in whoever's gaming experience.

3- Avoid the "spoiled staff" theory.
you mean do not ask the staff for the reason of their action, if you want to complain about an admin`s action you should directly take it to the management?
(I know sometimes it can be annoying to explain your actions, for sure it was when we got over 150 players. But in most cases I, when i was active as admin, could explain short my actions to a player. for example if you mute the whole server: you could write: "attention: I need to announce you all..." most ppl would understand that you wanted to inform the whole server. When I punished someone and he asked me why, I tried to explain him short the rule he broke. It helps the player to not repeat the rule breaking + if player understand why you take action, they will respect you more as admin. We got strict rules and every player should have to fallow them. No matter if it is a player who is negative and beeing watched a lot or if it is a total admin friendly player.)

I do explain it in this way and in other ways countless times, then I (and other admins) get PMs, and each one of them is blaming me about how noob I am, and how unfair was my decision. Sometimes I spend days trying to convince a player that my action was fair because so and so, but it's like asking gigo to stop evading. This is not the general case, many players ask and get a reply and it's over, but those few guys who complain about whatever happens are big time wasters.

4- Rebelling against an action does not help.
(I fully understand this. You got to punish those who do not fallow the rules. You got to make players fallow the rules. And it should not help if ohters support the wrong, just cause they are their friends or they think he did more for the server than you did.)

Exactly.

5- Understand who you're dealing with.
if I understand you right... you do not want to discuss with trolls?!

Yes (but not because I can't), because I don't bother as long as they get punished. Some players get it wrong when you're being nice or ignoring their rage. Some of them try to look cool through disagreeing with whatever a staff member says, and when you try to explain to them how dumb it looks, they think that you're trying to achieve victory over them, and to be even cooler than them! Again, I'm not generalising.

you mention often players should contact the management, when they are not okay with an action of you or another admin. but what will happen to admins who punished for things which are allowed? what will happen to admins who kill by cmd just cause they did not like their action. what will happen to admins who ban players just to tell them they do like the player? and does the management really care?

That's heading to another discussion. xP I am talking here about my role as an admin.

(it is really sad to see this is already too long for a lot of ppl too read, I got the feeling a stupid 4 words slogan help more than some wise words...like me you expect too much)

By the way, I have countless things to do instead of posting a 900 lines thread. I just don't like being silent when I see something wrong going on (like players leaving the server). I won't keep nagging! x) I just wanted to ring the alarm, and I won't do it again. I don't blame you (players) because it's not your first priority to care for the server, but at least don't post here if you have nothing to add, just like Simon said.

[Simon]

Why got Jet UB' post deleted?

He edited it out the content and requested it to be deleted. I would like to see his views if he wants to re-post them, it's interesting to read these opinions.

[SUPERBAD]

guess I understand now everything. thx.
I`ve played here verry long and the biggest ingame pause i have now. I guess I saw every kind of player ingame as player and as admin. I was on the server years ago at european nights even when there were just a hand full of players. even when they were annoying, crying or cheating I did not leave the server. No I thought at these times of less players and annoying players it is important to join the server... because if everybody would leave because of this reasons the server would be empty.
I also think and I ve ever thought it is necessary to have some annoying players, some ppl you really hate as player. Why? cause it is a deathmatch server, so more you hate so more you try to kill. I know some annoying enemies, of course we flamed each other and tried to kill each other. The heat was really on. It was great fun. It is less fun to fight totally friendly and polite players for me. But it is a problem for some players and some admins to cut the line when an admin is a player and when and admin is there to just do his job. In your case it is even more difficult, cause you are a clan member or even leader. There ppl often will think you are biased. The same problem might have S3rs and Nemesis. To avoid this, I was much more harsh on my clan members. I just had a smal clan which never grew and never really did something, but there was one situation where I found a clan member rulebreaking and I punished him pretty hard. I explained him I was just that harsh cause he is in my clan. But this did not make him happy. It is verry difficult to be fair and not to be biased. I even lost a lot of so called ingame "friends", cause I busted them undercover when they were rulebreaking. I made a lot of enemies in the admin team, because I want to treat everybody the same. If I would have closed my eyes on every iniquitousness I guess I would never had any problems. I still dream of a littlewhiteys, where ppl can not break any rule, so we just would need admins for making events and scripting new things, but as we all know that is just impossible.
Do not loose in the believe of good in players. Often when they cry or when they are negative they have their reasons and they can change. Like the good ppl can change into bad too. do not stop trying to be fair and if necessary be a lil more harsh on your own clan mates (if they break any rule) so ppl see you punish them hard too. And if you are at the server there is at least one good player, so do not stop joining the server because of anybody who might annoy you. You can prove to them you are fair. after a while they will understand you are and they will respect you.
The best you could do for more players is joining the server, even if you would prefert anohter server, cause of the ppl. try to make the other ppl come to lw`s.

[redtalent]

So let me get this straight..... LW lost a bunch of players because the players were sick of people 'crying' on chat. Personally, I play on a server because the gamemode overall is fun, what players are saying in chat doesn't really effect me, how can words on a screen drive people out of the server?

[EnzoMortelli]

well ive seen the past of LWs (not the beginning, not the 'old times' ofc) and i see the present. unfortunately i didnt see the process how it became like it is now, so i cant make words on that, but at least i remember hows it been and how all things have been. When u speak of negative players u should take in account that not only LWs, not only samp experiences them, its a fact that the number of crying trolls grows more and more these days. Its just a matter of the way of life ppl live. Noone wanna lose anymore, they even cant lose, thats a main reason for cheaters and rulebreakers, but we all know that. Let me make a comparison of an example how things worked yesterdays and hoiw they work now just to show how i ment this ^ up there

Time: some years ago
Game: Need for Speed - Most Wanted
after failing in playing through the single player - just got busted for the first time, somewhere near blacklist 6 - i started playing this game in online multiplayer. It was simple. There was a race, ppl joined in, drove aggressively, failed, tried to get back in front, well what ever u do while racing. afterwards some flamewars, respecting soever...
<->
Time: nowadays
Game: Race Driver Grid
After succesfully completing the single player, i started playing in online multiplayer again. Nothing else as above, only racing.
So ppl drove, they drove aggressive, we all know that... but at some point there were players, that failed totally, and started to drive the track backwards and ram other players.

They simply cant take the 'shame', or how ever u wanna call it, of loosing, they want to win evrytime, without doing anything for it, how they are used to. its symptomatic of the whole not only gamer society, but the whole society nowadays. The media makes us believe we can run evrything in our life however we want and the ppl cant accept anymore that there may be someone on this planet whos better than them.
As they protect their way of life, theres a phenomenon u can watch which scientists call 'no borders'. (Ok thats nothing to do with gaming but u can somehow see it there too) Thats the psychological phenomenon that makes ppl cheat, hack, exploit, rulebreak, just to keep their world up and running.

U can watch that phenomenon more often these days cuz our whole generation has a very high entitlement mentality, because the media suggests evryday that u urself not only can but will be a superstar or millionair or whatever, and it will come easy, u just need one good idea and there u go whit money and hoes.

In order to change the gaming experience, we would need to change the mentality of a whole generation i guess, which is infact - i bet u knew it before - impossible. We can only try to help our children, to bring the fairness and trust back in the lifes of future generations, and we can start to gain respect in our generation. maybe i'd suggest to watch more on the most important rule (in this context), which is to respect the other players and admins, but u anyways do that allready, and what would gaming be without a lil bit of more or less constructive discussions

Anyways sry for the TL;DR post, and i guess u anyways knew all i wrote before, but my english is still only simple and narrow, not very usefull in discussions like this.

Note: This reflects only my own opinions, nothing else. I will/can not claim that all i said is true or right. Its only natural that not all or even none of you will agree with this. If any of the staff members think that this post was useless and doesnt add anything ontopic, feel free to delete it.
ty

[brett7]

Good post, it's not important who wins or loses. It's that your having fun

[AJP]

Scanned over this topic.

jOjO, don't take in what players say. This is the internet and everything is subject to criticism. Accept that there are trolls and people you will not like ingame and kill them. It's a shame that admins nowadays have to be babysitters, quite frankly that's one of the reasons I /q'd from staff.

[Disco]

If you want a fact:
This post wont change the players its useless to make "retards" how i call them, obey and folow the rules like you want it.
save youre words for sth more important

[Devilboy665]

save youre words for sth more important

Something like calling players "retards" maybe?

[iMJets]

Why got Jet UB' post deleted?

He edited it out the content and requested it to be deleted. I would like to see his views if he wants to re-post them, it's interesting to read these opinions.

I deleted it, because I don't want to cause problems. I've never been a person to want to cause problems, as I just like to play and have fun, and also I dont like to be one of the First to post. But I will repost a similar response that I posted, when I wake up tommorow.

[SUPERBAD]

Scanned over this topic.

jOjO, don't take in what players say. This is the internet and everything is subject to criticism. Accept that there are trolls and people you will not like ingame and kill them. It's a shame that admins nowadays have to be babysitters, quite frankly that's one of the reasons I /q'd from staff.

I think there we already got the problem.
If you think the comunity has changed into retards, you are wrong. If you think it has changed so bad that admins nowadays have to babysit...
you already think too bad about the players.
Back in 2006 admins already complained. What is now going on is nothing against the zenith of the [eVo] vs [JOKER] war... there you really had to babysit the forum ingame and everything. When there were about 180 players online with a lot of new ppl, old ppl and ppl from other servers there was a hell to do ingame on irc and on forum.
If you think that bad about the players in general... they will soon realise it and they will loose the trust in admins. You might to know how it is to have some authority above you who allways think you doing bad.

[AJP]

Not all the players are retards, but there's a high amount of kids playing and the gaming attitude has changed. You wouldn't know SUPERBAD, since you don't even play anymore....