The End.

[EnzoMortelli]

12|21|2012 the world will end. But when will be the end of SA-MP?

Let's face the facts: SA-MP is dying, slowly, but it is. Of course right now it doesn't look like that, but some indicating effects are already observable.
Let me explain some of the things i found that might be reasons for the upcomming end of SA-MP.

Demographic changes

To face another fact: We're getting old. The generation who first played GTA:SA is in their mid 20s now and slowly discovers a 'real life'.
Some of us already study or work, which minimizes the time we have for playing games - including SA-MP. Some people might also just lose interest in gaming, because they are 'grown up' now and don't like to play 'stupid child's games' anymore.
However in conclusion for this point i can say, that i noticed the main group of players getting too old to play, but only minor numbers of new players join in on the fun. Also this has something to do with

Evolutionary effects

Fact: GTA:SA is an old game. A fucking old game. If you want to buy a copy of it, you'll find it way down in the shelves for classic games, somewhere beetween Zelda and Need for Speed Underground. You will have to read through many forum topics to be able to run it acceptable on newer systems. And what's most important: On the free market it's just an old game nowadays.
For our generation, who grew up with it, GTA:SA wasn't simply a game - it was a cult, somehow. And we all thought sometimes: 'Damn, if this game would have a multiplayer...' And then we googled and youtubed, until we finally stumbled over some MTA-video. For most of us this was like finding a 500$ bill on the street. SA-MP became a must for GTA-fans.
But, as i explained above, this generation is fading out now, and the new generation plays next generation games. Of course SA is cool, but what is it in contrast to Battlefield 3? To Modern Warfare 3? To Need for Speed: The RUN? To Skyrim? To GTA V? It's old. And due to that most of the young community will just not even know that SA-MP exists, some might not even know what GTA:SA means or even play it, as well as they'll never play 'Death Rally' or 'Ignition'.
GTA:SA and with it SA-MP became victims of Darwin's evolution. They got replaced by better games.

Server inflation

Another massive effect comming in these days is the overwhelming growth of the internet server list. SA-MP expirienced this in the past already when removing the official tab, causing a massive loss of players for the servers that were in it.
The internet list is like a free server market, and hundreds of servers compete for the highest playercount every day. The last time i checked it, it where 4605 servers for 15236 players. That would be 3.3 players per server. If you now consider the fact that some russian rp-servers already have 300+ players, you know how many servers had to stay empty for that.
People had enough time to learn pawn-script now, and they do anything to have an own server online, even if it's just a simple CTF. Mostly it isn't. Many of these servers have awesome scripts, far beyond what a LW's player has ever seen. Nevertheless they are empty - the surest sign that something isn't right in the SA-MP-world.

Social lacks

SA-MP has always been about the community. Unlike other simple action games it is used very often as another form of social network. People do not just kill each other all the time. SA-MP is anyways everything else than perfect as a shooter game. No other game has more opportunities at the time, and there are not many games that have such a great freedom of deciding what to do with the other players.
Unfortunately it seems that the social effects experienced in other games, forums and chatrooms do not go past SA-MP without harming it. It seems that players have lost the understanding for the pure gaming experience and the fun it brings - everyone just wants to win only. The sense for community or social capabilities seem to be aborted and it seems people forget just too often that the other players are actual persons somewhere in the world playing the same game. Egoism is on the rise. Trolling becomes more and more popular. We do not just be happy if we win - the enemy has to lose everything if we should be really happy.
And that is a real dangerous attitude, as more and more players seem to just have fun in destroying other people's fun. Well, that is based on what i explained above, and of course the social environment irl. I mean, what sort of people of our generation has time to play the whole day - without trying to discriminate anyone, but just think about it, and you'll know.

Hacking

This is closely interwoven with the lack in social competence, in my opinion. The problem is that some good players set requirements, which some other people can never fulfill. No-one likes losing all the time. In their unpatience, maybe caused by a real life, maybe caused by social factors, these people cheat to give in theirselves to the illusion of being a pro for a short time. You could say it is like a drug. A member of the CS-Squad Plan-B (State Champion of KSM 2011) named the problems in my opinion very appropriate: 'These are failed existences.'
Another main problem now, which should not be underestimated, is the evolvement of hacks and cheats, that do not aim on increasing the players abilities, but on just destroying everything, the fun, the server, the community. Cheats that shutdown servers, ddos attacks, hacks to bug all players, crash servers or timeout single players are getting more and more common. This is another alarming trend that will lead to a faster end of SA-MP, if not prevented.



I hope i could give you a little overwiew about the problems we have to face. Of course we cannot do anything about the most things, just try to keep it away from the server as long a possible. I don't give SA-MP - in his current form - more then 5 years, till then it will be dead, or not be able to be saved from eventual extinction.

What we have to think about now is: How can we keep these effects away from our server as long as possible, how can we assure to stay alive while everything else dies?

Give opinions, suggestions, maybe other problems i forgot to mention, onion rings, thoughts, ideas, phylosophical studies, anything you want as long as it's ontopic!

*Note: 'tl;dr' = offtopic = gtfo. Read or shaddap.

[Habdel]

SA-MP is the best mod of GTA SA, you can do soo many things with pawno, its not like call of duty games where all the maps are the same, same rules, same gamemode..
with pawno you can script many things Stunt/DM/TDM/RP lots of commands & menus
SA-MP is dying cuz its a mod and a mod cant do advert to make people know about that it
samp is just dying cuz people dont know about it and they dont know how awesome it is, most of the people just check one server then they say : shit game.
and the graphics matters too.. i wonder if its possible to increase the graphics in the next SA-MP version..but that will make lots of player lag :/
SA-MP is the best mod i know cuz you can do many things, there are lots of different servers but people dont know about it

[[eVo]Rizla]

this month , ive been an admin for exactly 4 years

wow

[[JOKER]Miczi]

this month , ive been an admin for exactly 4 years

wow

Really? I thought you've been admin for like... a long time. And 4 years doesn't sound that long (even thought it is long, almost as long as I play here).

On topic:
SA-MP will die. But 5 years? It depends. Surely, the player count will decrease. There will be much less servers. It will become a kind of... shitty game for nerds, like Tibia or Runescape is considered now (even though there is a difference - those are games, not mods, and they earn for themselves). But I wouldn't be so sure that in five years from now there will be no SA-MP.

What can we do? All we can really save, that developed during years under the name of Littlewhitey's, is community. The people. Currently I would say... 80% of the players are regulars. It wasn't like this. Back when the server was empty, even though we had more regulars, we also had more players. The percentage of regulars in that time would like... 10-20% ?

The community is the only thing we can save if samp is dead. But it can be saved only before it is even close to end. The only way would be to find a new game, onto which we could switch. Something kind of like GTA, in which the community is really important, much more important than in most of games. A game which we would want to play even more than GTA... something totally awesome and easily available (not expensive, with not very high requierements). Because after the SA-MP server is dead, or SA-MP as a mod is dead, it would be too late to gather people and start a game. LW would be over.

We need a game.

[Devilboy665]

Now.. I am gonna type some bullshit here as a 23 year old idiot.

- As soon as I saw the "12|21|2012 the world will end." I said NO! Its 21.12.2012. in my calendar.
And also when I saw that I was like.. GTFO! But then all would be like "shaaaannn to non believer shaaaaaannnnnn.. a."

Then I started reading. Well I must be honest and say I didnt read everything, becouse that what you have written there is basically a complete waste of time.

Why is this a waste of time?
- You could join server instead
- This new generations dont read
(make youtube video, submit this on google/wikipedia)
- You wont get anything from this except long ass (waste of time) responses from nice people that are supporting SA:MP(LWs) community.
- Instead of typing all this (ignored stuff) you could spam random servers with adds of LWs IP.

New generations?
Yes I mean all of you. Not all. But as it seems to me, people are turning into somekind hybrids/prototypes of humans. As they show no emotions, no future and no past. Only what happens that second so they respond automaticaly in a troll way: I hate Justin Bieber! Like.. what the fuck? This reminds me of RWJ's troll guy.
They are all obsessed with politics, religions, schools, gangbanging hot blonde twins, etc etc. Where is love!? Im serious.

My childhood?
1 thing I would like to say, idk how old was I when I said it but Im pretty sure I was below 10. As I remember the war was just done.
I said something like this: "Nothing will destroy us, except us" (not SAD, but us like we, ours.. ) anyway it sounds different on my language. I tried to make it sound smart in english also.

World ends?
- 1 brave scientist stepped out from the crowd on TV last year and said some words that made me believe this planet is not in danger for at least next 800 years.
So much about all those asteroids, planets, comets, stars hitting earth, sun explodes and shit like that.

Offtopic?
- Everyone with the IQ above 100 is aware that SA:MP is dying slowly. As everything around us is. Music died, TV died, RADIO is dead, MYSPACE died.
I will soon be dead also.

BUT!
- Even some of us are aware of all that, we are still fitghing for whats left of it. Some just "Lay down your arms, give up the fight" and move to another chapter of their lifes.

SA:MP dying?
- Yes it is, as everything, as I said already.

How long does it take to end?
- As long as there is people sharing same passions with me SA:MP will live. Aswell is LWs.

What if LWs just go offline 1 day?
- As long there is internet and all those smart kids there will be LWs. Maybe not same team, or name. But it cant be stopped.

What will keep this community?
- Myself, for example: People playing here, my friends, mostly my new clan members.. I see the fire in their eyes, the passion, the will to survive no matter what, the dedication to some things that are WTF to the "New generations".. it reminds me of me playing back in 2008. Thats what keeps me going.

Folks that gave up?
- Some time ago I talked to one of LWs most famous player.. that gave up as it seems.
The conversation went something like this:
- Why dont you come on LWs sometimes?
- Its dead!
- What you mean?
- It has 5 players online!
- So?
- 3 years ago there was 150 players online!
- So?
- ...
- Will you ever gonna join LWs again?
- Maybe when I see some nice people I know.
- Why did you join LWs 3 years ago?
- ...
- Did you know all those nice people 3 years ago? No you didnt!
- Stop annoying me retard, idiot, stupid, ass, fuck, shut uuuup!!!!

Thats the conversation. So yes, its a social network. People came just to meet few people, one day they said: "Now I have some nice new friends, so I quit!"
Someone might get my point and someone will say.. bad words. But I dont care! GINGERS DO HAVE SOULS! ALRIGHT?! lol..

How to help?
- Keep up what you do best, annoy people and make them leave so you will have your own perfect community.
Or dont.

Facebook?
- Facebook is the biggest time waster and destroyer of everything that was once important.
I see many people from this community here and I know they are (almost) all staring at facebook homepage and that section with red numbers called "notifications" to pop out. Instead of like umm.. join teh sevrer?

Future?
- Most things didnt change, except major players loss. Keep it up except dont be like Wildy and make people leave just becouse you dont like them, becouse every person is important here if you care about LWs or SA:MP. And there is the future.

End?
- Kids are farting around about some group of people that will destroy this planet, some will destroy internet, some will bring some new laws that will make us pay for everything we do. Wasnt like that since always? Why making such a big shit about it? Oh yes, internet is powerful tool. As someone said: "The medicine got so advanced now that noone is healthy" or something like that. Get the point?

Get a life?
- We all have life. We always had it. We all have schools/jobs etcetc. We all had/have that. Not in same count as it was before. Like my grandparents spent 4 years in school.. but made some big great shit without rest 20 years of education. Today, if youre not in school, youre stupid. I finnished school as soon as I could and got a job. I even had a job when I was "sweet 16" years old + Highschool. Money on other side.. for now. Now I have highchool and a job, friends with 30 still go to schools, no job in life. Thats silly to me tbh. But thats just my retarded point of view I know.

So I think that people that are telling me "get a life" are just being ironic to me. Like Wildy.. he cant have a conversation without "Read a wikipedia" or "google it". Like.. what?! Yes, robots. Thats a no lifer for me, a person that cant build his personality without google searching for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tjOZZi3TC8
- SA:MP is pure fun. Something that replaced soccer on sundays afternoon, or church in the morning. A game, we love to play, to have fun, to rage, to cry, to talk about personal issues, everything, its like real life, throught the game, not a social network as you can actually (kinda) see the person who you talk to. And Its not waste of time, its a game, games were around since always.. who plays CHESS?! One of the oldest games for example. So you are not stupid or a nolifer if you spend few hours playing games. Its just the "New generations" issue.

*Note: 'tl;dr' = offtopic = gtfo. Read or shaddap.

ps. these are no scientific facts and this was not written somewhere before, there are just humble opinions by non marked personality. And Im not sayin you must come back to play SA:MP more or to leave school or to dump your gf or wife so you could spend more time here.
And I apologise for my not perfect american language as Im not american talking person. And the typos also, I didnt recheck my post. x)

ps2. and please dont respond on what I said on "illuminati" basics, becouse THAT is retarded! Im illuminated btw.

[BikeDriver]

for like 4 years now you havent done any significant changes to the LW script and you wonder why its dying?

you say LW is dead because SAMP is dead but then explain me how a rather new russian roleplay server can have 4.000 (in words. FOUR THOUSAND) people online at the same time. samp is not even close to dying and if i remember right samp is right now at its peak if you look at the total player count.

sorry but 665 was right there. this is just another pointless waste of time topic.

want to save LW? get your shit done and stop lying at us about the new LW versions. when was actually the last time you guys worked on it? its ok if you cant be bothered but then at least say so and stop talking bullshit.

[n1K]

for like 4 years now you havent done any significant changes to the LW script and you wonder why its dying?

want to save LW? get your shit done and stop lying at us about the new LW versions. when was actually the last time you guys worked on it? its ok if you cant be bothered but then at least say so and stop talking bullshit.

+1337.

[Swanson]

I didn't even know about the Russian RP server, but indeed its crazy. At this moment they have 8 servers running with over 2000 players in total. There are enough players in sa-mp, just not in LW anymore. And I also agree thats partly because there seems to be no development anymore. I disagree with Enzo on the point that most sa-mp players getting old, I don't see that as the biggest problem. Yes, I know I'm getting older, but I don't see why I shouldn't play sa-mp anymore in 5 years from now. I have less time for it compared with what I used to have, but I still join the first and best sa-mp server from time to time, it's still my favourite game.

But Enzo, I loved your talk nonetheless. You really put thought to it, however I can't agree with all that you say. It's nice to know people like you still care for this game, and ofcourse the community (which is awesome). And also Devil, not many people are as devoted to this community as you! People like you make me come back to this server again and again despite all the trashtalk (which is lovely to me). As long as you guys are here, so am I.

Also, to put certain things into the proper context, take note that a program like GameRanger (that I use to play Quake, Fifa or AOE) has a typical amount of 50k players, which isn't that much more than sa-mp if you realise those 50k people play a dozen of different (old) games unlike sa-mp, in that respect sa-mp still rocks (and it really does)

[SKY]

To be honest not everyone cares about fair playing now, so the scripts used dont attract much players.

[iDamn]

we will neva know where will the world end.. 21/12/2012 or 12/21/2012 or whatevah.. we won't know no matter what... TRUE STORY!

[EnzoMortelli]

Locking this since it became kinda pointless within the current situation.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and opinions, i would have loved to discuss more with you guys, but it has no sense anymore now.