Author Topic: The new weapon respawn thingy  (Read 8429 times)

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Offline BikeDriver

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The new weapon respawn thingy
« on: May 05, 2014, 10:26:27 PM »
Just saying.. it is very frustrating for new players that they lose spawn weapons whenever they die. Cause they don't have any cash to afford the fresh weapons.

Imo you should turn the spawn weapons into what they are supposed to be: Free respawn weapons. I'd say they scare too many noobies away as they are right now. Death is punished too strictly. It is basically impossible to join the server for 15 minutes and have fun. You used to be able to /register and buy weapons with $55.000. More than enough for a few quick kills. Right now that no longer works.

I don't think it's a good idea to design a very empty server like one where everybody joins for at least 1 hour or so.
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Offline EnzoMortelli

Re: The new weapon respawn thingy
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2014, 10:58:47 PM »
At the moment the server has been reverted to v2.9.0 again, and the devs are working on the issues reported during open beta phase.
I'd suggest you to issue a change request ticket for the feature changes you want at dev.littlewhiteys.co.uk, as the devs mainly stick to redmine for design and bug issues rather than the untidy chaos of the forum.

Offline Runey

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Re: The new weapon respawn thingy
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2014, 11:47:23 PM »
The newest information is that we've got old features back,BikeDriver!
At the moment the server has been reverted to v2.9.0 again, and the devs are working on the issues reported during open beta phase.
I'd suggest you to issue a change request ticket for the feature changes you want at dev.littlewhiteys.co.uk, as the devs mainly stick to redmine for design and bug issues rather than the untidy chaos of the forum.
Everything is fixed and fine now.Staff did really good job! :D ;)
Ofc,they still working on some other things ^^
« Last Edit: May 05, 2014, 11:48:56 PM by [187]Runi[SWEG] »

Offline EnzoMortelli

Re: The new weapon respawn thingy
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2014, 07:31:28 AM »
Everything is fixed and fine now.
(;一_一) there are still the old bugs y'know

Offline BikeDriver

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Re: The new weapon respawn thingy
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2014, 08:02:43 PM »
At the moment the server has been reverted to v2.9.0 again, and the devs are working on the issues reported during open beta phase.
I'd suggest you to issue a change request ticket for the feature changes you want at dev.littlewhiteys.co.uk, as the devs mainly stick to redmine for design and bug issues rather than the untidy chaos of the forum.
I wouldn't consider it a design or bug issue. It is rather something that should be discussed. That's why I created a topic in the discussion section. But I excepted more feedback than your robotic-like declarations and some random palaver of our sweet server kiddo. ::)
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Offline EnzoMortelli

Re: The new weapon respawn thingy
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2014, 10:02:47 PM »
yare yare daze...

I agree that it's frustrating that you're only given 150 bullets of the spawn weapons you bought. As you will ever only have 150 bullets on respawn, it's basically a risk to buy more as that money would go wasted if driveby'ers camp the ammu outside.
People would rather be likely to enter ammunation once they join and then just die to refill their weapons without even setting a foot near ammunation. Basically if it wasn't for the armour the new system would be a kind of 'anywhere-ammunation', given the fact that you don't loose all of your money on death anymore. In contrast this way you don't have to put your anyways limited savings at stake just to buy new weapons. But i think this is actually the opposite of what we initially wanted.

I'd like the concept of buying and spawning with spawn weapons in any desired ammount for the corresponding price, as it was before, and in addition to make spawn weapons more expensive to reach the same effect of economy mobilization without the frustrating and aswell highly intransparent money deduction on spawn. Yes, this means that newbies and weekend players won't be able to afford spawn weapons right from the start. Which in return gives them a target to fight and earn money for, like it once used to be, and like a actual basic moneygrub should work.

Spawn weapons were never supposed to be free on LW's DM system. Remember the classic approach and why it had worked in the beginning for so many years. You started with almost no weapons, and fought to be able to buy better weapons from the stolen money. Based on that, spawn weapons should be the next step on the ladder, the long term achievement you're playing for in the long run. This was how it worked in 2009, when i joined, as there were deagle+bat only on spawn. Achievements in existence back then were:
-get better weapons
-therefor get more money
-fill bank account
-join a clan
-be the best
We've practically eliminated the first three by introducing the free uzi+sawns spawn weps. You don't need better weapons as those actually suffice to do decent damage, therefor getting more money is kinda useless as there is not much useful stuff to spend it on except weapons, and with no use of money you don't need to fill your bank. Of course, this was welcomed by the 15-minute-players. But 15-minute-players are not really clan material. They are not taking the game seriously enough and aswell are not active enough to be of any use in a clan. We indirectly eliminated our clans by that, and without clans also the fourth target falls. Well, and without those four - what to be the best in?


LW was sa-mp's first server, and LVDM~Moneygrub sa-mp's very first gamemode and a classic concept for many servers. As sa-mp's first server i think we have an obligation to stay original, yet i also understand that the modern audience calls for updates. We've just been understanding it wrong all the time imho.
Going with time doesn't mean doing all the silly stuff others do to attract more players. It means to stay true to oneself while improving old and rusty features. We just have to look at the basic concept and find out why it worked, and then go retro, and afterwards just add new features instead of touching a running system.
 
If we're looking to support this 15-minute-funplay-mentality, we've already lost, as all we will ever create is a server where people just play 'for the laughs' or for relaxation between other games, or just for quick fun when they don't have time for a serious game.
What we must strive for in the name of traffic and activity is a server where people will want to play serious games at, where they have a reason to stay for longer than just 15 minutes. This might be less fun for weekend players, but what we really want and need are 12/7 regulars.

We're not sumo or partyserver or fucking lvp, we're littlewhitey's goddamnit.

enough feedback for you kiddo?
« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 10:06:50 PM by EnzoMortelli »

Offline BikeDriver

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Re: The new weapon respawn thingy
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2014, 06:18:08 AM »
Yes fatty, that's enough feedback for me :)

So let's turn 3.0.1 into a retro version of 1.0 but with improved features? Sounds good to me.
It would be awesome if we, alongside with deagle being the only default weapon, also forbid c-bug again. It is overpowered anyway, due to the lag compensation.

I like the new idea behind the property system but it seems to be wasted effort if owners don't lose all they money if they are chased down and killed. What's the big thrill behind picking up the cash if you only lose a small amount if you die? This sucks donkey balls.
BikeDriv:))))

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Offline EnzoMortelli

Re: The new weapon respawn thingy
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2014, 07:15:51 AM »
Nah i rather see 2.6.0 back, but anyway.
The new property system is fucking awesome, and it definitely adds to LW's spirit. The old developers always tried to stay near to the singleplayer features, and collecting money from your properties is as near as you can get to the singleplayer property system. This feature is maybe the one in 3.0.0 that yet works as intended. It prevents people sitting in ammunation make millions during afk, and also puts property owner's money at greater stake for both economy and competition.
Yet again, haha it actually doesn't because you don't loose it anymore if you die. That's like the total contrary of the classic moneygrub idea. In the basic version of LVDM~MG you'd get 5000 for a kill and the dead man looses everything he had. This created an interesting game comparable to survival games. Nowadays it's just like 'fuck it if im gonna die at least i shot the mayor'.

Bringing back the system like it is now, creating cash pickups with all the cash and to collect it, is the feature i would most rather see return in v3. Yet i've been told that it is not that easy to be scripted with the new server sided cash. (yare yare just create pickups what's the deal)
Many things didn't work anymore because of the server sided cash, yet i'm not saying it was a bad idea to add it.
Server sided cash is a lot safer than client sided cash, as it makes cash hacking as near to impossible as it can get. Yet of course the native server features do not work using server sided cash. There are more than one way to fix this though, and it should be fixed. If we're adding it, we should desperately fix all of the disabled features again before considering putting it online. That is what's ment by don't touch a running system.

Offline BikeDriver

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Re: The new weapon respawn thingy
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2014, 08:11:21 AM »
Yay it's pretty rare that we fully agree.

The changes I consider necessary to 3.0.0 are:
- loss of all cash upon death, be it accident or murder
- no more c-bug and desert eagle as the only default fire weapon
- free respawn of weapons that were purchased as "Respawn weapons"

The other changes that come with 3.0.0 are pretty awesome. Re-balanced cash is a good way to go.

With this, the server script will also be a lot cleaner, as instant cash-loss and normal respawn weapons are way easier to script.

Any compains about these conclusions? If you agree I might bother to create a ticket and see if anybody cares.
BikeDriv:))))

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Offline iDamn

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Re: The new weapon respawn thingy
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2014, 08:50:52 AM »
The new property system in v3.0 is nice. But maybe we should raise the earnings a bit.
Or maybe, we could just disable afk players from getting any money from the properties. ::) (v2.9.)

- loss of all cash upon death, be it accident or murder
- no more c-bug and desert eagle as the only default fire weapon
- free respawn of weapons that were purchased as "Respawn weapons"

+1337.

I would like to know about the difference between server sided money and client sided money. And what's the perk for both of these? (besides preventing hacked moni)

Offline BikeDriver

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Re: The new weapon respawn thingy
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2014, 10:39:20 AM »
Server sided money is a simple server sided variable, drawn on the player screen ontop of the normal, client sided money (so it appears to be the same).
Advantages:
- Can't be set using normal hacks, most likely there won't be a money hacker who gets away with it ever again.
- All client sided game bugs regarding cash are fixed
Disadvantages:
- All client-sided features (gambling, buying stuff in default menu of ammu nation, vending machines) won't work anymore, as the player has no client-sided cash. Devs must create a workaround (they did that for 3.0.0, new ammu nation menus, new vending machine mechanism etc.)


Client sided money is like the money in single player. If singleplayer cheats worked, you could enter HESOYAM to increase it.
Advantages:
- All client-sided features still work.
Disadvantages:
- Ultra easy to cheat monies
- Harder to detect money hackers due to client sided game bugs (frozen cash bar etc.)
BikeDriv:))))

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Offline Tw1sT3r

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Re: The new weapon respawn thingy
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2014, 10:44:11 AM »
- no more c-bug and desert eagle as the only default fire weapon

Nope.

Offline BikeDriver

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Re: The new weapon respawn thingy
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2014, 10:46:47 AM »
Could you contribute more than a completly retarded "Nope."?

Explain yourself.
My argument is that c-bug is more powerful than ever before, due to lag compensation, thus the deagle becomes a too powerful start-up weapon.
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Offline iDamn

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Re: The new weapon respawn thingy
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2014, 11:10:16 AM »
Basically, he's too good in c-bugging any weapons.

Is it possible for the dev team to combine both of the sided money's advantage to one? That would be great

Offline BikeDriver

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Re: The new weapon respawn thingy
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2014, 11:48:17 AM »
Basically, he's too good in c-bugging any weapons.

Thought so. A retard.


Is it possible for the dev team to combine both of the sided money's advantage to one? That would be great

Don't think so as the entire script is now altered to work with server-sided cash. The cost-benefit factor doesn't suffice.

Also I have now created a Ticket concerning the cash problem.
http://dev.littlewhiteys.co.uk/issues/563

The spawn weapon problem (due ot lag compensation) should be discussed further, as I want to collect enough information before I create a ticket.
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