FPS Limit

[AdTec_224]

Ok so this will the last topic i make on the subject.

This is the reason why the framelimiter is locked at 30fps:

the GTA3 engine was designed poorly and the physics and AI were tied to the framerate of the rendering engine, which in turn means that the game will only run properly when it's capped at 30fps. Add to the mix that since most VC:MP players don't even have PCs powerful enough to run the game at 30fps, people will be running the game with very different framerates, so increasing the limit to 60fps _will_ make overall sync worse.

Some more quotes from other members of the vcmp dev team:

<&VRocker> 'omg 60 fps is needed in gtavc'
<&VRocker> if you knew how the game worked you'd realise that 60fps is worse

<maxorator> the problem here is consistency I suppose, that since there is a slight difference in physics with different framerates, all players should ideally play at the same framerate

And about the so called player count drop:

Since the change the player count hasn't really dropped at all, we still are the biggest server in the vc-mp community which leads me to assume most players don't really care either way and it's just a select few causing unnecessary problems, either due to not understanding what we've been trying to explain or just bitching for sake of it.

And while some of you may not agree with the decision please respect it as acting like 5 year olds won't change anything.

- AdTec_224

[VRocker]

Just adding my comment on this as i've been hearing about the people bitching and moaning at AdTec for limiting the framerate and I can see why he's getting pissed off.

This post points out pretty much everything you need to know as to why it's limited to 30fps. Like Juppi said, the game is coded horribly and things are processed on the rendering thread with no time limiting done. What this means is that the game expects a 33 millisecond wait between processing things (33 milliseconds would be 1 frame at 30 fps, 33*30 = 999ms so 1 second), if it's faster or slower then the game isn't running how rockstar intended. The side effects of this is that if you have more FPS, say 60, then physics processing occurs every 12ish milliseconds. Now, you may be thinking 'well that sounds great, physics updating faster means less problems right?' WRONG

For some reason in Rockstars infinate wisdom, some parts have an actual wait timer on while others just go off the rendering thread. So, here you are... processing things at 12ms BUT OH WAIT! Bullet hit detections are processing every 33 milliseconds! Before you know it you're missing a bullet collision a frame and things start going a bit screwy. Now, 1 frame missed processing is barely noticable (although bullets sometimes pass through objects, depending on their position) it gets really really bad at even higher framerates.
I can't remember if specifically bullets are processed on a timer, i was using that as an example. What I do remember is the game processes object movement speed based on the frame rate. From what i remember movement speed does some funky calculations which, for some unknown reason, uses the time between frames as a sort of multiplier for speed. This would fuck things up in multiplayer as you would have some people moving faster than others. Nopw, you'd think as the framerate is doubled it'd go double speed but for some reason the speed increase is slight, just enough so you'd get the edge over people in a race. A good way to test would be a drag race in a server with no limiter enforced. One person lock the framerate to 30 and another to 60 and both in the same cars. I guarentee you that the guy with 60 will win by quite a way.
As Juppi mentioned, the AI is also dependant on the framerate in GTA, okay that is irrelevant for multiplayer but if you want to see just how screwy it gets... turn off the frame limiter on a high end PC and watch the AI commit suicide. With 300fps in GTA peds start jumping infront of cars and falling out of the map, it's hilarious to watch but it reenforces the fact that the 30fps limit is there for a reason.

The best thing about all this is the reason why people want 60fps. There is no legit reason! People 'think' they need 60fps 'to be all shiney' but in fact a game such as GTA is fine at 30. Hell, GTA:SA ran at 24fps by default and nobody really cared. There are a few games where 60fps is needed, one of which being a first person shooter but GTA is not one of these. People seem to think 60fps is important but it really isn't. I'm playing GTAV at 40fps perfectly fine and that's a far superior game to this. Speaking of GTAV... i think i'll go kill AdTec_224 in it now

For my final signing off of my wall of text, i will end by saying... if you really want to moan at somebody for 30fps... cry at Rockstar for making a console port and putting next to no effort in for porting it properly to PC.

[Hanney]

So read all so does this mean 60fps is coming back?

sorry I had to, </joke>

[The Milko]

I ain't got nothing against 30 FPS, and the bitching part on #miami-dade was done for the lols.
Though, the following quote is false:

And about the so called player count drop:

Since the change the player count hasn't really dropped at all, we still are the biggest server in the vc-mp community which leads me to assume most players don't really care either way and it's just a select few causing unnecessary problems, either due to not understanding what we've been trying to explain or just bitching for sake of it.

We've been slowly losing players ever since the enforcement of 30 FPS. The only players we get now are new-to-VCMP ones, which also end up leaving and not coming back.

[StraightFire]

I ain't got nothing against 30 FPS, and the bitching part on #miami-dade was done for the lols.
Though, the following quote is false:

And about the so called player count drop:

Since the change the player count hasn't really dropped at all, we still are the biggest server in the vc-mp community which leads me to assume most players don't really care either way and it's just a select few causing unnecessary problems, either due to not understanding what we've been trying to explain or just bitching for sake of it.

We've been slowly losing players ever since the enforcement of 30 FPS. The only players we get now are new-to-VCMP ones, which also end up leaving and not coming back.

(I'm not even in staff but just posting my opinion)
As compare to 0.3's 30fps, 0.4's 30fps is too much laggy. That is the reason i saw LWs daily players are moving to unofficial server(s) and LWs is losing players.

And while some of you may not agree with the decision please respect it as acting like 5 year olds won't change anything.

not some of you, almost all players aren't agree with this decision..

[krystianoo1]

at least I can say I tried, even with my topics removed. lol
My point and probably many other people's point stands: Frame Limiter should not be forcefully enabled for some minor sync fixes. And maybe they're not minor, but they feel minor. Nobody noticed any changes, and even if there are any, people want to play with "sync issues". If they won't get what they want, they'll go to another server. And they'll do right.


Now..:

Since the change the player count hasn't really dropped at all, we still are the biggest server in the vc-mp community which leads me to assume most players don't really care either way and it's just a select few causing unnecessary problems, either due to not understanding what we've been trying to explain or just bitching for sake of it.

still are the biggest server

Exactly, "still are" the biggest somehow, but that's bound to change: hopefully official servers release with an ACTUAL 0.4 script that uses 0.4 features, here, you could name it [0.3z on 0.4] and block all the setconfig commands, and bam you have 0.3 all over again. In the name of better sync of course.

most players don't really care either way

Sure - that's why the player count was losing with an unofficial server that has a bad script.

Still claiming the player count isn't lowering?

or just bitching for sake of it.

If you call 'bitching', me creating topics and community members commenting on them, well.. lol

acting like 5 year olds won't change anything.

Wondering who's acting like a 5 year old by removing my topics, ignoring my PM's, calling us all

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<~AdTec_224> now i just get loads of incompetent idiots moaning they don't like it changed or

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<&AdTec_224> typical vcmp idiots

And while some of you may not agree

No, not some of you. Nobody agrees with this retarded decision. Nobody. Or what, 2 to 4 people?


Also, as I have said in my topic (which naturally was removed, because why respond to criticism, right?)
This is what maxorator, an active VC-MP developer said:

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<krystianoo> can 60 fps cause any sync issues
<maxorator> well, it shouldn't make anything worse
<maxorator> with fps 30 you might send sync packets a little less frequently
<maxorator> well, it can make cars you control move a little differently for other people
<maxorator> but that's quite subtle
<maxorator> might increase the chance of warps a bit but mostly it would just make the movement a little bit less smooth (other see you accelerating/decelerating a bit when actually you are moving at constant speed)

Anyway, time to find a new playground (server) since this won't be changed. Enjoy the cinematic experience in the name of better synchronization!
cya!

i think i'll go kill AdTec_224 in it now

can i as well?

Also, if someone believes that I never made a topic:

http://img.vc-mp.eu/images/6OGcEdqtx.png


EDIT: only edit by me (AdTec_224) has been to change the screenshot to a link rather than a full size screenshot.

[StraightFire]

I don't understand what the hell is wrong with 30 FPS? I feel no difference between GTA VC and VCMP, which would add more life-like thing.

Regards'

Because you didn't even play vcmp on 60fps thatswhy you didn't feel any defference.

[Wr^blix]

[krystianoo1]

Also: removed previous posts so people focus more on the real issue here (which is the FPS Limit) rather than an argument
I recommend you to do the same

---
I see you did it! Thanks

[Maddy`]

Also: removed previous posts so people focus more on the real issue here (which is the FPS Limit) rather than an argument
I recommend you to do the same

Agreed!

[Usmanulamin]

Well i am not aware if the FPS issue BUT i did notice the drop in player count, i had no idea why it got down.

[AdTec_224]

Still claiming the player count isn't lowering?

1 data point does not an accurate data-set make. Here is something a bit more accurate taken at random over the last 2 days: Link 1, Link 2, Link 3. As you can see for the most part it's still business as usual, however i won't deny that we have lost a few people over this which is sad but that's their decision and as you can see doesn't really impact the server all that much.

or just bitching for sake of it.

If you call 'bitching', me creating topics and community members commenting on them, well.. lol

acting like 5 year olds won't change anything.

Wondering who's acting like a 5 year old by removing my topics, ignoring my PM's, calling us all

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<~AdTec_224> now i just get loads of incompetent idiots moaning they don't like it changed or

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<&AdTec_224> typical vcmp idiots

While it is true i have said those things that was mainly me getting pissed off at the abusing messages I've received over the last few days over such an inconsequential change. As someone who has been around the vc-mp community since the beginning (10 years) i would have hoped people would have a little more respect and understanding than this.

And while some of you may not agree

No, not some of you. Nobody agrees with this retarded decision. Nobody. Or what, 2 to 4 people?

Did you actually read the rest of that sentence?

please respect it

everyone has their own opinion but a few people moaning about it won't change the fact it is better this way.

Also, as I have said in my topic (which naturally was removed, because why respond to criticism, right?)

The original topic (still in the suggestion board) was locked as people were clearly attempting to incite flame war so the offending posts were removed and the topic locked. The second post was removed so i could post this one in it's place in an attempt to make people understand why it has been changed.

[Foxtrot]

Nobody gives a shit about 1-2 bullets not being synced or some 2 milliseconds speed advantage VRocker was talking about or w/e. Turn off the frame limiter otherwise we will have real problems with the player count.

[krystianoo1]

The server WILL have players as long as there is no fully-functional, good script server that will compete against LW. Right now, there is none.

As for the FPS case, I don't think anyone cares about a bullet or three missed, because it doesn't matter THAT much in fights.
And surely NOBODY cares about a car going slightly faster on a server that's mostly centered about  TDM.
So if you want perfect sync, it's worth it, but from my point of view here this just looks like the first nail to the coffin: players don't like it. And it's not a few. It's 10 or above for sure. Despite what you think, it really is a big number.

Also:

The original topic (still in the suggestion board) was locked as people were clearly attempting to incite flame war so the offending posts were removed and the topic locked. The second post was removed so i could post this one in it's place in an attempt to make people understand why it has been changed.

The only person that commented on this topic but yourself was Eddy; nobody else did. I was refreshing all the time to see for responses.
seems like an excuse to me :p



Now, I'm going to enjoy 60 fps in gta: online with a 120 mph limit on vehicles. have a nice day!

[The Milko]

I just noticed that CPU usage on 30 FPS is much lower. Maybe that's why players lagged on 60 FPS so much.