Suggestions to help prevent wrongful bans

[Mabinogian]

Hey all, I made this new topic as sort of a discussion and idea base for players and admins to hopefully stop players from getting accidentally banned or even stop hackers.What got me interested in making this post or me just here general is because I`m a fan to GTA but new to multiplayer, so when I joined I seen the good and the bad on both sides, players and admins so I`m hoping this can help clear stuff. My first suggestion I that I think would be great is a little more  communication between Admin and players, especially if a player or Admin is suspected of having to do with some misuse of the game. Many times I`ve seen players banned on the spot with not a word of warning given, if people communicated better it`ll help finding out peoples situations,ingame bugs,awareness, or whatever troubles they may be having besides always assuming its a hack. This would overall be good for the community. I had more to say but don`t want to talk/type so much so please post any thoughts and/or suggestions you have!!

                                                                                                                                                                                          ~Mark

[Lofty]

In my opinion, the SA:MP server works pretty smoothly and people are friendly. That said,  you cannot force other people to be friendly with you, that is how everything works irl and on SA:MP. Of course, sometimes errors/mistakes can happen like your current situation so what I think you should do now is be patient.

[Mabinogian]

You got it wrong, this isn`t to change the attitude of people, thats the least problem I see, this is to help people communicate better when it comes to misuse ingame such as bugs,bans,ect. By communicating I don`t mean being friendly or socializing, I mean if you see in issue ingame ask the person whats up? or is something wrong and state your problem with them instead of silents and pushing the ban button. It`ll save Admins and players a whole lot of stress and time   

[BikeDriver]

Discussing with retards like you is not going to save anybodys stress or time

I'd advice you to respect the person who banned you and to deal with this servers rules if you wish to ever get unbanned.

[EnzoMortelli]

Sorry but administrators are not babysitters. Our job is to make sure that everyone can have a fair game and follows the rules. We're not there to discuss about the situation that leads to a punishment. That is what ban appeals were introduced for.

The primary goal for us admins on the server is to keep everything in order, thus we will always take immediate action towards suspicious or malicious behaviour in an extent to retain the order. The immediacy of actions is, especially in cases of malicious intent of a player, necessary to prevent the danger of collusion.
A short example: Let's assume we have a hacker on the server, and given i have observed malicious behaviour by that player. Now, i for once do as you suggested and first talk to said player.
Me: 'Hey, i don't see you loosing health when being hit, why is that?'
Hacker: either

• *leaves immediately* : This would convince me of the malicious intent, however i have no possibility for a punishment anymore.
• *ignores my PM* : Maybe the hacker doesn't even speak english. He'll continue to hack despite my warnings or do the following:
• *turns off hack* : The former hacker as being warned by my conversation attempt that he is under observation will immediately deprive me any base for a punishment by suppression of evidence.
• 'It's my lag' : Often combined with the previous point, the hacker will try to disperse the last suspicions by refering the observed behavior either to a harmless cause or a lighter offence.
• 'Yes, i hack.' : Said no hacker ever.

The reason why we first take actions and then discuss the cause and the outcome is simply to avoid these loopholes in social engineering. Furthermore, our team is hand picked by management and experienced admins, for everyone who has been made admin players can safely assume that he/she is experienced enough and can be trusted, especially to not act arbitrarily. The fact that an admin's decision is by rule's definition a sufficing evidence for a punishment is expression on the high standards management enforces during election of new staff members.

That being said, mistakes happen. We're still only human, and humans make mistakes sometimes. To find and resolve these mistakes is what ban appeals are for. And for my time as admin here i personally never saw that system failing to work. Mistakes and wrongful bans always got resolved in the past, i could not name any exception by the best of my knowledge.

[Milivoje]

Sorry but administrators are not babysitters. Our job is to make sure that everyone can have a fair game and follows the rules. We're not there to discuss about the situation that leads to a punishment. That is what ban appeals were introduced for.

The primary goal for us admins on the server is to keep everything in order, thus we will always take immediate action towards suspicious or malicious behaviour in an extent to retain the order. The immediacy of actions is, especially in cases of malicious intent of a player, necessary to prevent the danger of collusion.
A short example: Let's assume we have a hacker on the server, and given i have observed malicious behaviour by that player. Now, i for once do as you suggested and first

talk to said player.
Me: 'Hey, i don't see you loosing health when being hit, why is that?'
Hacker: either

• *leaves immediately* : This would convince me of the malicious intent, however i have no possibility for a punishment anymore.
• *ignores my PM* : Maybe the hacker doesn't even speak english. He'll continue to hack despite my warnings or do the following:
• *turns off hack* : The former hacker as being warned by my conversation attempt that he is under observation will immediately deprive me any base for a punishment by suppression of evidence.
• 'It's my lag' : Often combined with the previous point, the hacker will try to disperse the last suspicions by refering the observed behavior either to a harmless cause or a lighter offence.
• 'Yes, i hack.' : Said no hacker ever.

The reason why we first take actions and then discuss the cause and the outcome is simply to avoid these loopholes in social engineering. Furthermore, our team is hand picked by management and experienced admins, for everyone who has been made admin players can safely assume that he/she is experienced enough and can be trusted, especially to not act arbitrarily. The fact that an admin's decision is by rule's definition a sufficing evidence for a punishment is expression on the high standards management enforces during election of new staff members.

That being said, mistakes happen. We're still only human, and humans make mistakes sometimes. To find and resolve these mistakes is what ban appeals are for. And for my time as admin here i personally never saw that system failing to work. Mistakes and wrongful bans always got resolved in the past, i could not name any exception by the best of my knowledge.[/list]

I agree with you enzo, you're absolutely right, and Lofty.

[BikeDriver]

And BiekeDriver!!

[Mabinogian]

Ok you guys obviously arn`t understanding that this is just an idea and suggestion page!!!! This has nothing to do with my current situation though that was on my mind when I first decided to start this topic. I`ve been playing MMO`s for 7yrs now and I just like to make the community better you know? Since this is like my second day in this community and I lack funds to donate often if at all so I thought perhaps helping with some ingame issue would earn my keep but guess not  that being said perhaps an open discussion and suggestions about helping prevent wrongful bans isn`t welcomed here.
Thanks all for advice, I`ll keep whatever you said in mind...EXCEPT YOU BIkeDriver >;O rude ass...Have a good one all~Mark

[eDiT]

Couldn't have said it better myself, thank you Enzo.

Mabinogian, I do understand what you mean.  However, like Enzo stated, this would just be more of a mistake on the admin's perspective of things.  We ask the suspicious player what's going on, and they instantly know we are on to them, etc.
Communication is a very great thing, but not for this specifically.   Admins communicate with each other and get second opinions where applicable.  And even if there is doubt, that is what a ban appeal is for!

[Mabinogian]

Thanks for the post eDiT. I now understand that communication isn`t the best "weapon" against bugs,fairplay,bans,ect and may in fact complicate some cases. I`ll take that in consideration and apply it for future use! ~Mark   
 

[BikeDriver]

Glad I could help )

[EnzoMortelli]

Glad I could help )

:O u realize u just discovered a new smiley that's not in the editor's smiley list?

  + = )

Code: [Select]

;D + :D = :))

[Runey]

Goddamn it,i'm late for the disccussion.  Well,I hope you now realize that LW is not a random,most likely RP server you find everywhere on SA:MP.This is the most amazing,Elite,Professional,First and AGAIN Awesome SA:MP Server.So please,don't talk to staff that way(neither doublepost),otherwise you can easily get yourself FORUM BANNED(In-Game Also).Also,don't take BikeDriver seriously,because he can't control himself,neither say something nice sometimes.

Glad I could help )

:O u realize u just discovered a new smiley that's not in the editor's smiley list?

  + = )

Code: [Select]

;D + :D = :))

:OO )

[Mabinogian]

*shrugs* cant take the heat, get out of the kitchen. kinda a waste of time talking to me about it if biker is going to act like that, you say dont talk to the staff that way but if there asking for it what can u expect? Doesnt sound fair if there allowed to be "themselves" but players like me must "tone it down"  I think everyone should take a page from eDiTs book lol treat others fine and I`ll treat you fine

[Quickplay]

treat others fine and I`ll treat you fine

i always find it ironic when i read this from people who definitely don't do that..and your ban appeal is a good example

Anyway don't mind Bikedriver, he is our trolling Mascotte )