Author Topic: Admins are never present when needed  (Read 12969 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline RapisT

  • SA-MP Donator
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 301
  • i'll fuckin rape ya all
    • Awards
  • SA-MP: HaRsH
Re: Admins are never present when needed
« Reply #30 on: October 06, 2015, 06:11:48 AM »
I agree with dehshat, there is nothing wrong with what he said.... I personally don't blame admins it is super wrong (we all thank you for your commitment and are aware that you have your own lives to take care of). It is nonetheless true that sometimes cheaters aren't banned directly and that because of the unavailability of admins. None of the admins should take that as a personal attack, they should instead look for solutions for this problem that is bothering the community.
I understand the frustration that some players might feel when there are cheaters online and there's no way to get rid of them cause none of the staff is on. But this problem has always existed in kinda every samp server as far as i could see throughout several years...i've read topics like this so many times, and my conclusion is that is absolutely normal that nobody can ensure the presence of at least 1 admin online at ANY time, simply cause we ain't a company which plans work shifts to cover every minute of the day.

We do consider the possibility of promoting new staff members, when it doesn't happen either we don't think it's necessary or we don't think there's someone around suitable for the role.

In the meantime when there's the need to get rid of a cheater, if you're lucky enough to be in front of a newbie cheater, you can always try old tricks like the ones that tickle their pride like "hey noob, i guess you can't even spawn a minigun/jetpack!!", it sometimes works  :) i did it several times when there wasn't anyone online from the staff
yeah i completely agreed with you, LW is Way Better Than Any Server

Offline Mr.DehshaT

  • Kiddy Fish
  • **
  • Posts: 66
  • Never interact with Admin in-game. #WordsToLiveBy
    • Awards
  • SA-MP: Mr.DehshaT
Re: Admins are never present when needed
« Reply #31 on: October 06, 2015, 09:06:22 AM »
yeah i completely agreed with you, LW is Way Better Than Any Server
Yeah, i agree, but not tht much  ;D
« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 12:58:31 PM by Mr.DehshaT »


Offline SultanSaleem

  • SA-MP Donator
  • *
  • Posts: 219
  • #MakeLittleWhitey'sGreatAgain.
    • Awards
  • SA-MP: SultanSaleem
Re: Admins are never present when needed
« Reply #32 on: October 06, 2015, 10:11:13 AM »
Just promote players to admin... Problem sloved lol  8)
#MakeLittleWhitey'sGreatAgain.

Offline Aryan

  • Management
  • *
  • Posts: 2203
    • Awards
  • SA-MP: [V]Aryan
  • VC-MP: [V]Aryan
  • PAC ID: 11434
Re: Admins are never present when needed
« Reply #33 on: October 06, 2015, 10:25:01 AM »
We do consider the possibility of promoting new staff members, when it doesn't happen either we don't think it's necessary or we don't think there's someone around suitable for the role.

Just promote players to admin... Problem sloved lol  8)


Offline EnzoMortelli

Re: Admins are never present when needed
« Reply #34 on: October 06, 2015, 10:37:45 AM »
Also, if this problem has never been solved in the past , it doesn't mean there is no solution or no one can do anything.
There are several solutions that have all been discussed in the past. Admins working on shift is not an option, because it cannot be arranged with our personal lifes. Most of the admins here already work shift irl which would mean a 12+ hour workday with shifts on LW. At this point i can hear the 'this is a game, not work'-argument comming, which might be true for players, but not for admins.
The other solution is infact promoting admins from different time zones, which we already do, but as you can see this does not always work out to 100%, having this discussion here is the best proof for that. The time zone an admin is from is god beware not the only factor in being promoted and these quality decisions make LWs
Way Better Than Any Server

It is very hard if not right away impossible to get a solution for 100% coverage. And that is something you will experience in every game ever created. For example just try out to report a hacker in War Thunder. You'll find out that on a bad day with few players online you can totally close the game and play something else for a week when you have someone in a Ki-2 on your tier one-shotting pilots in a row. And when you return that guy will not be banned but instead in a higher tier where he is not being matched against you. All despite the core admin team of Gaijin is hired and actually works shift.
The way we are dealing with it now, and that is why we always ride around on the patience thing, is to sensitise players to not await for hackers to be treated immediately, but rather eventually. In this context i can only say from own experience that we pretty damn good got every hacker eventually, and have a pretty presentable rate in immediate treatments.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 10:44:37 AM by EnzoMortelli »

Offline Mr.DehshaT

  • Kiddy Fish
  • **
  • Posts: 66
  • Never interact with Admin in-game. #WordsToLiveBy
    • Awards
  • SA-MP: Mr.DehshaT
Re: Admins are never present when needed
« Reply #35 on: October 06, 2015, 12:33:42 PM »
Also, if this problem has never been solved in the past , it doesn't mean there is no solution or no one can do anything.
There are several solutions that have all been discussed in the past. Admins working on shift is not an option, because it cannot be arranged with our personal lifes. Most of the admins here already work shift irl which would mean a 12+ hour workday with shifts on LW. At this point i can hear the 'this is a game, not work'-argument comming, which might be true for players, but not for admins.
The other solution is infact promoting admins from different time zones, which we already do, but as you can see this does not always work out to 100%, having this discussion here is the best proof for that. The time zone an admin is from is god beware not the only factor in being promoted and these quality decisions make LWs
I/We are not asking for specified shifts or promoting more admins. All we are asking is admins should be more consistent. As of currently only Aryan, Idamn, Puranjay, blewert and 2-3 more, Spend a good time at the server, and are doing very good. Their presence is a very good help. But i hardly see any other admins, in game or IRC. Above admins are doing their part greatly, but they are just few and have limits. There is a considerable amount of time ,almost evryday, that there is no admin.

It is very hard if not right away impossible to get a solution for 100% coverage. And that is something you will experience in every game ever created. For example just try out to report a hacker in War Thunder. You'll find out that on a bad day with few players online you can totally close the game and play something else for a week when you have someone in a Ki-2 on your tier one-shotting pilots in a row. And when you return that guy will not be banned but instead in a higher tier where he is not being matched against you. All despite the core admin team of Gaijin is hired and actually works shift.
The way we are dealing with it now, and that is why we always ride around on the patience thing, is to sensitise players to not await for hackers to be treated immediately, but rather eventually. In this context i can only say from own experience that we pretty damn good got every hacker eventually, and have a pretty presentable rate in immediate treatments.
If we keep taking examples of the failures , we cannot succeed ever. If others could not resolve the problems dsn't mean we cannot. And responsible volunteers are way more beneficial than employees.
And the thing about treating hackers eventually is, that sometimes hacker/cheater hacks only for 1-2 days, to dominate/fun/revenge or anything, which causes trouble to other legitimate players. And after that 1-2 days , they start playing normally, which results in they never being caught and admins never believing us without proof.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 02:30:37 PM by Mr.DehshaT »


Offline Aryan

  • Management
  • *
  • Posts: 2203
    • Awards
  • SA-MP: [V]Aryan
  • VC-MP: [V]Aryan
  • PAC ID: 11434
Re: Admins are never present when needed
« Reply #36 on: October 06, 2015, 12:52:00 PM »
Off-topic:

You can modify/add/remove signatures by using this link

http://forum.littlewhiteys.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;area=forumprofile

paste your link in the 'Signature' box with image code ofcourse

On topic:

You can always report cheaters on forum using the CHEATER REPORT board when no admin is online.

Offline Mr.DehshaT

  • Kiddy Fish
  • **
  • Posts: 66
  • Never interact with Admin in-game. #WordsToLiveBy
    • Awards
  • SA-MP: Mr.DehshaT
Re: Admins are never present when needed
« Reply #37 on: October 06, 2015, 12:57:01 PM »
New to this , so didn't know  ;D ;D
Thanks spitfire and aryan

You can always report cheaters on forum using the CHEATER REPORT board when no admin is online.
We will report cheaters. We are talking about response, bans and othr admin roles
« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 02:34:19 PM by Mr.DehshaT »


Offline EnzoMortelli

Re: Admins are never present when needed
« Reply #38 on: October 06, 2015, 07:09:01 PM »
I/We are not asking for specified shifts or promoting more admins. All we are asking is admins should be more consistent.
Consistent as in online longer? Because the day just does not have enough hours for us to spend more time on the server than we actually do. As i tried to make clear earlier we do have a real life, and we are spending our free time here. Many admins spend more time with LWs than with their personal lifes, for example Aryan is here despite studying and he was here last month during his midterms where he should have learned instead. Freak sometimes even plays from his workplace, just let me mention that this can get you fired in most companies. Blewert is studying and in parallel working at a laboratory as research assistant in addition, and still finds time to join. I have personally sacrificed an entire five years of my life only for LWs (and tv shows).
But of course thank you for noticing another solution i had missed about earlier, propably because it did not seem propable as explained.

Quote
If we keep taking examples of the failures , we cannot succeed ever. If others could not resolve the problems dsn't mean we cannot. And responsible volunteers are way more beneficial than employees.
And the thing about treating hackers eventually is, that sometimes hacker/cheater hacks only for 1-2 days, to dominate/fun/revenge or anything, which causes trouble to other legitimate players. And after that 1-2 days , they start playing normally, which results in they never being caught and admins never believing us without proof.
That's a bit of a naive point of view but i'll give you that, the youth shall keep their dreams because that is what motivates us to go further. What this example should make clear is that there is no 100% coverage, there is not a perfect solution. There are problems in the world that cannot be resolved, they can only be compromised with accounting to the interests of different parties looking for a solution. This issue is one of them, and like with any of them the only solution is a balance in compromise that will reach an effect with that all parties can agree, and as you will see that will mostly never bring a 100% success as a complete solution always lies within extremes that will completely disregard interests of one or several parties in favour of certain interests of another party.
For the case you've mentioned i personally don't know of any case where this actually happened, and of course proof is needed when taking administrative actions, we will never take any action without solid proof to base it on.

See the great whole. The important question is are you having fun playing on LWs? Because there are always setbacks in any part of life, there will always be bad days and sometimes you will be frustrated. That's how the world works. There is no reason to be upset about a failure, life goes on, and success only lies one report away.

Apart from that i still think imho that you generalize to much. Some random incidents are not necessarily an indicator for a fundamental problem in a system's concept. Just saying.

Offline BikeDriver

  • Fisher
  • ******
  • Posts: 1765
  • I can do anything
    • Awards
Re: Admins are never present when needed
« Reply #39 on: October 06, 2015, 07:41:27 PM »
Quote
If we keep taking examples of the failures , we cannot succeed ever. If others could not resolve the problems dsn't mean we cannot. And responsible volunteers are way more beneficial than employees.
And the thing about treating hackers eventually is, that sometimes hacker/cheater hacks only for 1-2 days, to dominate/fun/revenge or anything, which causes trouble to other legitimate players. And after that 1-2 days , they start playing normally, which results in they never being caught and admins never believing us without proof.
That's a bit of a naive point of view but i'll give you that, the youth shall keep their dreams because that is what motivates us to go further. What this example should make clear is that there is no 100% coverage, there is not a perfect solution. There are problems in the world that cannot be resolved, they can only be compromised with accounting to the interests of different parties looking for a solution. This issue is one of them, and like with any of them the only solution is a balance in compromise that will reach an effect with that all parties can agree, and as you will see that will mostly never bring a 100% success as a complete solution always lies within extremes that will completely disregard interests of one or several parties in favour of certain interests of another party.
For the case you've mentioned i personally don't know of any case where this actually happened, and of course proof is needed when taking administrative actions, we will never take any action without solid proof to base it on.

See the great whole. The important question is are you having fun playing on LWs? Because there are always setbacks in any part of life, there will always be bad days and sometimes you will be frustrated. That's how the world works. There is no reason to be upset about a failure, life goes on, and success only lies one report away.

Apart from that i still think imho that you generalize to much. Some random incidents are not necessarily an indicator for a fundamental problem in a system's concept. Just saying.

About this (very) specific case again:
If somebody hacks once, then stops hacking forever and does or does not get away with it, get the fuck over it. He seems to have appreciated LW and decided to play on LW without hacking, which is a good thing.
If somebody secretly hacks every now for whatever reason, film it or tell staff to keep their eyes on a specific player. Use forum messages if no admin is online, give them the Name of the player and time/date he/she was online. If neither of this options is good enough for you, then you are the problem...

I seriously have no idea how you find or justify a point to complain about the admin staff of this server. Those retards kick ass and you should appreciate that they sacrifice their free time so that ungrateful people like you have a good time on the server.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 07:43:13 PM by BikeDriver »
BikeDriv:))))

Haha blwelrwelrt, I registered here earlier :P

Offline SultanSaleem

  • SA-MP Donator
  • *
  • Posts: 219
  • #MakeLittleWhitey'sGreatAgain.
    • Awards
  • SA-MP: SultanSaleem
Re: Admins are never present when needed
« Reply #40 on: October 06, 2015, 09:10:41 PM »
#Respect EnzoMortelli, Blewert and Aryan *hats-off*
#MakeLittleWhitey'sGreatAgain.

Offline enkei

  • SA-MP Donator
  • *
  • Posts: 647
  • On green, I'm goin' for it...
    • Awards
  • SA-MP: enkei
Re: Admins are never present when needed
« Reply #41 on: October 06, 2015, 09:17:05 PM »
there should be atleast 1 admin online 24x7 in the game.

i'm not sayng all should be there 24x7 , i'm sayng there shld be any 1 of them whn needed...

That's basically what I pulled from this thread - an immediate contradiction. Here's my two cents: No amount of protection will stop those with malicious intent. The United States Department of Defense spends TRILLIONS (not billions, trillions) of dollars each year on cyber-security, yet they are constantly in headlines for being hacked. If the LW's staff spent trillions of dollars annually on cheater-protection, there would still be cheaters. No amount of security can prevent a sophisticated attack. Keep in mind, management's budget is reliant on donators, which brings me to Enzo's point.

People have lives outside of the game. I logged in last night to drive around aimlessly, and there wasn't a soul online. Are you saying that admins should be required to patrol empty streets? Surely there needs to be some sort of formula for when an admin is needed, and it doesn't look like you supplied that. Sure, it'd be great to have an admin in each time zone, but we don't have that luxury - and I'm certain management would not crown a player with such a status simply due to their location on the planet.

TL;DR: With the budget the LW's staff has right now, they're doing the best they can. I would not expect any changes.

EDIT: Also, most admins are inactive because they're getting older, thus their responsibilities are growing and they cannot pay as much attention to the server as they did during the golden days of the server.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 10:34:35 PM by enkei »

Offline EnzoMortelli

Re: Admins are never present when needed
« Reply #42 on: October 06, 2015, 10:32:08 PM »
Surely there needs to be some sort of formula for when an admin is needed, and it doesn't look like you supplied that.
How should he if we even can not.

I'm replying to specifically this because i like formulas and because this is another solution i personally did not think of, and to my slight surprise (not really) nobody else on the staff yet either. There is infact a statistical approach for this. We could be able with a little effort, if we'd gathered and compared data of previous bans, join times etc. to compute a scheme for admin attendence based on when hackers join most likely. The problem with that approach is that we are talking about propabilities, not facts here, and it is not guaranteed that the hackers will exactly act as our limited statistical model will suggest.

I still think that it would be far more ressourceful to work on how failures of the system can be dealt with in a better way, rather than investing into trying to push a system with limited capabilities beyond itself.

there should be atleast 1 admin online 24x7 in the game.
i'm not sayng all should be there 24x7 , i'm sayng there shld be any 1 of them whn needed...
That's basically what I pulled from this thread - an immediate contradiction.
It's just bad english ;) ;D

I seriously have no idea how you find or justify a point to complain about the admin staff of this server. Those retards kick ass and you should appreciate that they sacrifice their free time so that ungrateful people like you have a good time on the server.
BikeDriver having good words for the LW staff - that's it, i quit. My life is complete.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 10:33:44 PM by EnzoMortelli »

Offline BikeDriver

  • Fisher
  • ******
  • Posts: 1765
  • I can do anything
    • Awards
Re: Admins are never present when needed
« Reply #43 on: October 07, 2015, 12:14:05 AM »
I'm replying to specifically this because i like formulas and because this is another solution i personally did not think of, and to my slight surprise (not really) nobody else on the staff yet either. There is infact a statistical approach for this. We could be able with a little effort, if we'd gathered and compared data of previous bans, join times etc. to compute a scheme for admin attendence based on when hackers join most likely. The problem with that approach is that we are talking about propabilities, not facts here, and it is not guaranteed that the hackers will exactly act as our limited statistical model will suggest.

I still think that it would be far more ressourceful to work on how failures of the system can be dealt with in a better way, rather than investing into trying to push a system with limited capabilities beyond itself.

A formula would require admen to stick to a time schedule, which I am sure, nobody is willing to do.

I seriously have no idea how you find or justify a point to complain about the admin staff of this server. Those retards kick ass and you should appreciate that they sacrifice their free time so that ungrateful people like you have a good time on the server.
BikeDriver having good words for the LW staff - that's it, i quit. My life is complete.

LOL I always liked and respected most of the staff members (exceptions prove the rule).
Problem is: I often use my "special" humour on people who I appreciate. My favourite will always be going undercover, putting a bomb + nitro in car, requesting admen to test if the nitro speed of that car is legit or hax :))

Seeing that retards blow themselves up while they are thinking "that fucking noob really thinks hax can be installed into a car"... LOL :D
BikeDriv:))))

Haha blwelrwelrt, I registered here earlier :P

Offline [BB]Diablo

  • Adult Fish
  • ***
  • Posts: 166
  • Bleed or beat it!
    • Awards
  • SA-MP: [BB]Diablo
Re: Admins are never present when needed
« Reply #44 on: October 07, 2015, 01:10:24 AM »
I don't know much of this but what about applying anticheat system?