littlewhitey's Servers Forum (SA-MP/VC-MP/MTA/Zomboid)

Recycle Bin => Suggestions (2008-2011) => SA-MP Archive (2015) => SA-MP Archive => Recycle Bin => Rejected Suggestions => Topic started by: [Cheetos] on May 06, 2010, 07:31:39 AM

Title: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: [Cheetos] on May 06, 2010, 07:31:39 AM
Hello!
i got an idea and it might be good ....

*A summary of the changes that you want: if some 1 kill his gangmate it doesnt count as kill for the killer and as death for the dead...

*The advantages of this change happening: hmm its would dicrease " wtf im in your gang" story! and.....

*The disadvantages of this change happening:nothing ...

*Any script snippets which provide the feature that you want :
not sure

*Extra notes : none
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: Faraday on May 06, 2010, 08:27:22 AM
nah don't like it. Just watch your fire. And who the hell gives about a death these days?
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: Thug on May 06, 2010, 09:01:54 AM
nah don't like it. Just watch your fire. And who the hell gives about a death these days?

So true, stats are for nerds.. :)
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: V4Ng3LiS on May 06, 2010, 09:34:29 AM
don't look stats (it's bad)... LOOK MY FIGHT... ;)
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: Gryphus_One on May 06, 2010, 10:43:20 AM
Great idea Cheetos, +1 :)



And who the hell gives about a death these days?

Maybe all those stats-maniacs who are obsessed only about their stats? ::)

nah don't like it. Just watch your fire. And who the hell gives about a death these days?

So true, stats are for nerds.. :)

And LW is full of stats nerds...
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: Daniel. on May 06, 2010, 10:52:30 AM
Gryphus_one you agree with every suggestion that makes it easier for players, why don't give them rocket launchers and miniguns? bet you would agree..
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: Faraday on May 06, 2010, 10:53:19 AM
Great idea Cheetos, +1 :)



And who the hell gives about a death these days?

Maybe all those stats-maniacs who are obsessed only about their stats? ::)

nah don't like it. Just watch your fire. And who the hell gives about a death these days?

So true, stats are for nerds.. :)

And LW is full of stats nerds...

I'm talking about the real LW players here. Not you runner noobs like Cheetos and those new JOKER guys. I talk about ppl like Thug, who understands and who's been around the block in LW's.
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: Gryphus_One on May 06, 2010, 10:56:01 AM
Gryphus_one you agree with every suggestion that makes it easier for players,

OF COURSE!!!!

why don't give them rocket launchers and miniguns? bet you would agree..

Well, actually I suggested A LIMITED USE of those weapons and Hydras and Hunters in this thread (point 6):
http://forum.littlewhiteys.co.uk/index.php/topic,12513.0.html (http://forum.littlewhiteys.co.uk/index.php/topic,12513.0.html)
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: Starsky on May 06, 2010, 10:56:55 AM
learn aim :P
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: V4Ng3LiS on May 06, 2010, 11:03:35 AM
Quote
I'm talking about the real LW players here. Not you runner noobs like Cheetos and those new JOKER guys. I talk about ppl like Thug, who understands and who's been around the block in LW's.
I'm still nor JOKER guy (and maybe I will not be)  and I'm not a runner.... ;)
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: Reny on May 06, 2010, 11:04:39 AM
nah don't like it. Just watch your fire. And who the hell gives about a death these days?
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: [Cheetos] on May 06, 2010, 11:18:46 AM
ffs that sugges is all about those stats nerds+ 1 or 2 teamkills not that much to care about! .....  whatever evrey1 and his own opinion!!
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: Simon on May 06, 2010, 11:20:01 AM
I don't see the harm generally, BUT, since the server is already counting a bunch of stats adding new stats related to others would cause inconsistencies.

I would like to see the old stats archived, stats cleared then some new stats implemented. If the new sub categories are added without rezeroing the current stats then I think the stats will get confusing..

For example, if we added gang kills/deaths now while people keep their old stats then it's not possible to say "40 of [name]'s kills are drivebys" instead we'd have to say "since [date], [name] has driveby'd 20 times, they have killed 100 times since they registered/[date]". If we cleared stats when implementing then it'd be less confusing, you'd just say "Stats since [date]: 40 of [name]'s kills are driveby's".. Hopefully my point is understood  :P
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: Gryphus_One on May 06, 2010, 11:33:13 AM
Hazard, I think you are talking about a different thing. I think you are talking about making a classification of types of kills, but Cheetos is just suggesting that gang-kills are not counted.
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: splatterpuss on May 06, 2010, 11:42:28 AM
Hell no, gangs don't need another advantage other single players. What if I'm fighting a gang and one of them is about to die and the gang decides to shoot him so it dosen't count on his stats.
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: V4Ng3LiS on May 06, 2010, 11:45:07 AM
It's stupid... Than I must first left the gang and than duel this man with which I was in gang....
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: [Cheetos] on May 06, 2010, 11:46:00 AM
Hell no, gangs don't need another advantage other single players. What if I'm fighting a gang and one of them is about to die and the gang decides to shoot him so it dosen't count on his stats.
Yea u right ... this is 1 of the disadvantage
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: AJP on May 06, 2010, 12:32:58 PM
No thanks
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: Simon on May 06, 2010, 01:03:50 PM
Hazard, I think you are talking about a different thing. I think you are talking about making a classification of types of kills, but Cheetos is just suggesting that gang-kills are not counted.

Then I think no to the idea. A kill is a kill, a death is a death..  no matter who does it. Tampering with the raw data is a no-no, adding extra classifications I have nothing against. I was against the driveby's tampering with stats for the same reason.
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: Gryphus_One on May 06, 2010, 01:56:51 PM
Hell no, gangs don't need another advantage other single players. What if I'm fighting a gang and one of them is about to die and the gang decides to shoot him so it dosen't count on his stats.

Very true, although something similar can happen with the current system: if you are fighting against a gang, and you are about to kill one of its members, maybe another of his gang-mates can kill him, because he was gonna die anyway, and at least the kill is scored by this gang-mate and not by you...
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: Faraday on May 06, 2010, 02:14:10 PM
OH NO!!!!1111ONE LESS KILL!!!!1111 OHNOES I IZ GONNA CRIES TO MOMMYS NOWS!

Stop your bitching about kills and deaths.
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: mayhem on May 06, 2010, 02:29:45 PM
Hell no, gangs don't need another advantage other single players. What if I'm fighting a gang and one of them is about to die and the gang decides to shoot him so it dosen't count on his stats.

Word.
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: Shizalk on May 06, 2010, 04:07:21 PM
*The advantages of this change happening: hmm its would dicrease " wtf im in your gang" story! and.....

Just watch out who are you inviting to your gang. You are supposed to invite people that you and your gang mates get along with, not everyone who asked to be invited.
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: Slice on May 06, 2010, 06:00:42 PM
*The advantages of this change happening: hmm its would dicrease " wtf im in your gang" story! and.....

Just watch out who are you inviting to your gang. You are supposed to invite people that you and your gang mates get along with, not everyone who asked to be invited.
i thought u were supposed to invite people that says /me NEED GANG PLS ID 612!!!!!!!!

also,
well first off it's stupid, and secondly it could be abused..

"hey guys im bout to die, kill me pls!!"

so.. no
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: Gryphus_One on May 06, 2010, 11:02:34 PM
well first off it's stupid, and secondly it could be abused..

"hey guys im bout to die, kill me pls!!"

so.. no

I quote myself below just because detractors of the idea seem to have missed this:

something similar can happen with the current system: if you are fighting against a gang, and you are about to kill one of its members, maybe another of his gang-mates can kill him, because he was gonna die anyway, and at least the kill is scored by this gang-mate and not by you...
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: Slice on May 06, 2010, 11:23:10 PM
well first off it's stupid, and secondly it could be abused..

"hey guys im bout to die, kill me pls!!"

so.. no

I quote myself below just because detractors of the idea seem to have missed this:

something similar can happen with the current system: if you are fighting against a gang, and you are about to kill one of its members, maybe another of his gang-mates can kill him, because he was gonna die anyway, and at least the kill is scored by this gang-mate and not by you...
that, however, sounds like a good idea. not adding teamkills to stats. leaving deaths the way they are.
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: Gryphus_One on May 07, 2010, 01:48:55 AM
not adding teamkills to stats. leaving deaths the way they are.

Well, that would be an intermediate point between the current system and Cheeto's suggestion.
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: Simon on May 07, 2010, 05:58:13 AM
well first off it's stupid, and secondly it could be abused..

"hey guys im bout to die, kill me pls!!"

so.. no

I quote myself below just because detractors of the idea seem to have missed this:

something similar can happen with the current system: if you are fighting against a gang, and you are about to kill one of its members, maybe another of his gang-mates can kill him, because he was gonna die anyway, and at least the kill is scored by this gang-mate and not by you...
that, however, sounds like a good idea. not adding teamkills to stats. leaving deaths the way they are.

There will be no selective counting of deaths/kills (e.g. if KillType is TeamKill then don't add).. the data is to be kept RAW. Classifying is OK, stripping data out permanently based on conditions is NOT, the kills/deaths is simply KILLS/DEATHS.

Server: "Kills [kills_here] but on [date_here] it was decided to stop adding gang kills to these stats."
Player: "Oh, how many kills have I actually made in total?
Server: "Who knows, someone decided it was a good idea to selectively stop counting some kills. Although these stats do include them before the date they were implemented but now they're all inconsistently aggregated together. Woo hoo, this is actually now statistically impossible to make a proper analysis."

The kill/death ratio is not a rating. It should not be treated as one like many players think it does. Is a player who has a higher ratio 'better' than a player a player with a 'lower' ratio? No; because the ratio is not a rating and does not classify different types of kills.

The intermediate point would be adding a classifications rather than selectively counting. This was what my original post was getting at. This way we could also add a stat named "Kill Rating" which calculates a rating based on the different class weights (e.g. driveby has a kill rating multiplier of 0.5, team kills have a kill rating multiplier of 0).
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: Gryphus_One on May 07, 2010, 11:20:44 AM
Hazard, there has been a recent change in the way of counting kills and deaths, and there hasen't been the problem you are describing: this change I mean is when db counting was changed. Before it was -1 for the killer and a death for the victim, whereas now it doesn't count at all, so it's possible to make something similar to the gang-kills.
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: j.king on May 07, 2010, 11:52:53 AM
._.

Gang damage is the best thing when its like 4v1, you can count on them to miss me completely and shoot the hell out of their own team.
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: Simon on May 07, 2010, 01:18:02 PM
Hazard, there has been a recent change in the way of counting kills and deaths, and there hasen't been the problem you are describing: this change I mean is when db counting was changed. Before it was -1 for the killer and a death for the victim, whereas now it doesn't count at all, so it's possible to make something similar to the gang-kills.

Just because it is/has been done before does not mean it is RIGHT to do so. Yes, the stats are already screwed up due to the horrible idea of "removing a death/adding no kill" (what the fuck? if someone dies they die, you can't undo the fact they died), adding more ideas to screw with the truth of the stats is not the way to go.

/stats is useless to me. Since my k/d radio is somewhere far in the negatives. Implementation of a /stats that also shows race wins, would make my self-esteem go up alot. But would it count 2nd and 3rd place as a win? Or a loss? Or neutral?

Example of why tampering is bad. How is it even possible to have negative kills? Because there is stupid code that tampers with the stats. The stats should be truthful, that is why you can classify but not "rig" them.

Think about it this way, how about if someone is being voted president/prime minister, "everyone" can vote, but I decide to put in a system that removes the votes of the poor. I now don't have the poor peoples votes for use later on and I also have a biased vote. Same principles apply here. The kill/death stats are for raw kill/deaths, you are biasing those stats and removing accuracy when you stop counting for certain conditions... not only that but the bias would be inconsistent; there's no way to clearly define how it's biased and make statistical measurements.

The command is "/stats", that is short for STATISTICS, which is what it's meant to show. It's supposed to show REAL DATA ::)
Title: Re: Gangmates kills and deaths
Post by: SRC on May 08, 2010, 08:42:13 AM
nah don't like it. Just watch your fire. And who the hell gives about a death these days?
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